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Don’t hire top talent; hire for weaknesses

benjiweber.co.uk

121–130 of 168 posts

Re: Don’t hire top talent; hire for weaknesses

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why you think FAANG is getting the cream of the crop. Looking at stuff like Rob Pike's comments about Go's use for the general Google employee base [0], I think there is quite a lot of misalignment between the aura of mystique from the outside and the situation as seen from the inside. [0]“The key point here is our programmers are Googlers, they’re not researchers. They’re typically, fairly young, fresh out…

> Not sure why you think FAANG is getting the cream of the crop. The best coders can demand the highest salary. If you can afford to pay the highest salary you are in an advanced position position to get the best coders. FAANG can afford to pay the highest salary. Anecdotal evidence to the contrary does not cancel this mechanism.

That assumes the selection process is effective, but FAANGs are all monopolies so there's very weak selection pressure for them to distinguish candidates correctly. They don't get punished for their mistakes.

I'd argue the people at FAANGs are the people who are best at hitting the requirements of a FAANG. That's still a competition and they'll brain drain from smaller companies, but it creates arbitrage on unrecognised ability and other opportunities may exploit that (e.g. starting your own venture relies much more on genuine ability than where you stand on a FAANG progression matrix).

I was contributing to an open-source FAANG project recently and the oversights they'd made in the codebase were surprising to me. There were very basic errors and mistakes and the people managing the codebase didn't understand what some of the functions were even supposed to do. The API wasn't consistent. Tests were testing behaviour that was outright wrong (and, somehow, passing). Feature prioritization was way off. There were half-hearted implementations of some features that were bad enough that they weren't useful. They weren't talking to other departments working on the same basic area (who are also open-source, and hold the state of the art), so there were important features that weren't ported. The project was small, too (but not unimportant).

I don't have high market value, but I was fixing some of these bugs in minutes. The guys managing that project are obviously a lot better than me overall, but I think it betrays a flaw in the institutional structure. Those weaknesses in the codebase would be cheap to fix, the problem is the FAANG standards are such that they are able to go unrecognised.

Re: Don’t hire top talent; hire for weaknesses

#122
post #90

>Instead of “how can we find the smartest people?” think about “how can we find people who will make our team stronger?” I would have thought that was obvious? Why would you hire someone unless you had a need for their talents? I guess I'm probably thinking small-business. At the biggest companies, they probably just hire and hope to fit them in because hiring for exact needs doesn't really scale.

You only need to read a few dozen job adverts to see that tech companies are focused entirely on technical ability and don't hire for other skills. How often do you see "must know Typescript, expert in Docker, passionate about algorithms" compared to "must understand writing documentation, expert in sprint planning, passionate about user value"? Skills that aren't tech are rarely valued by tech companies despite the…

Is this really true? In my (limited) experience, the best coders are the ones who understand the technology, understand the hardware, and understand good program structure. "Communication" and "teamwork" are totally unimportant and they're usually organic side effects of understanding the domain. I've done open-source stuff with a total asshole and it wasn't pleasant but the end product was good because he was good, and I learned way faster than with most people.

But I've not been exposed to that kind of corporate environment. Is it really that important? It reeks of corporate buzzwords to me.

Re: Don’t hire top talent; hire for weaknesses

#123
post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not sure why you think FAANG is getting the cream of the crop. The best coders can demand the highest salary. If you can afford to pay the highest salary you are in an advanced position position to get the best coders. FAANG can afford to pay the highest salary. Anecdotal evidence to the contrary does not cancel this mechanism.

Sure a big salary is nice but especially Google hasn't done much in the last decade to make it look there is exciting, or even just satisfying, engineering happening there.

Not to mention, people like to work on things with meaning or value.

Google cancels so many things, so much work and code tossed, and with entire projects, the point of entire projects axed, how can anyone there feel there's a point to their work?

Re: Don’t hire top talent; hire for weaknesses

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personality tests are broken - there is no way a functioning human being will answer them truthfully. Not for the lack of trying... our subconscious will try to protect us and we'll answer in a way we imagine it is socially acceptable.

@johnsmith4739 You've arrived at home after a long day at the office. As you take your wallet & keys, you realize that you've accidentally taken home a granola bar that you obtained from the snack room at work. You had intended to eat it at your desk, but for some reason you forgot. On a scale of 1 to 10, how guilty do you feel for having unlawfully stolen property from your employer?

I love it! What if I am the owner? Is then "guilty capitalism?"

Re: Don’t hire top talent; hire for weaknesses

#125

Amazes me how little data-driven recruiting is. Just as the author puts it, a good hire is for culture ad, and that means being explicitly aware of what's missing. Tough stuff to really look inside and see what's missing. Most hires I see are either out of desperation or because the recruiter had a good chemistry with the candidate. A 1h interview means 0,3% of the time I will work with that person in one year. Talk…

>Amazes me how little data-driven recruiting is. I'm a founder of a rectech startup. I see four big problems in most companies: 1. Turtle speed. The hiring process takes 45 days, and most of the best candidates get hired by someone else, usually before the hiring manager gets around to interviewing the candidates. 2. Arbitrary process. Candidates get a completely different set of questions, completely different inter…

Insanity, right? Let me add another one - have you seen how they advertise job openings? With the "technical specifications." It's like they actively try to do a bad job.

We only worked with founders that are involved in the recruiting process. 2, maybe 3 "dates" and you should be able to decide with clarity.

Re: Don’t hire top talent; hire for weaknesses

#126

Amazes me how little data-driven recruiting is. Just as the author puts it, a good hire is for culture ad, and that means being explicitly aware of what's missing. Tough stuff to really look inside and see what's missing. Most hires I see are either out of desperation or because the recruiter had a good chemistry with the candidate. A 1h interview means 0,3% of the time I will work with that person in one year. Talk…

Any websites which irritatingly change the page title back and forth to "You have 1 message waiting" (or anything else, really) get immediately added to my blocklist.

You are right, it is. Removed, thanks for the heads up.

Re: Don’t hire top talent; hire for weaknesses

#127
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not sure why you think FAANG is getting the cream of the crop. The best coders can demand the highest salary. If you can afford to pay the highest salary you are in an advanced position position to get the best coders. FAANG can afford to pay the highest salary. Anecdotal evidence to the contrary does not cancel this mechanism.

> The best coders can demand the highest salary. How would you confirm this with data?

I’m not sure how you confirm this, but I don’t see how it’s not true. Do you (or other people on this thread) genuinely believe that the best software engineers aren’t demanding the best salaries? Who doesn’t want to make more money given the opportunity?

Re: Don’t hire top talent; hire for weaknesses

#128
post #79
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your mindset is modeled after a simple selection process. Big companies often have pipelines for selection processes. HR does screening, leader does interview, manager approves. Each step of the pipeline, the responsible has to optimize for what the team needs. In practice, each one is evaluated by what the layer above thinks. HR optimizes for CVs the leader likes, leader optimizes for profiles the manager likes. Spe…

This is brilliant. Tech hiring and work dynamics seem more life a feudal religious experience than anything remotely intelligent or even intuitive.

Along those lines I'm getting shades/hints that people hire to fit a workforce that resembles something like how they think their software stack works?

Sounds good in theory but in practice people aren't actually programs/cogs and stacks are messy?

Re: Don’t hire top talent; hire for weaknesses

#129
post #127
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The best coders can demand the highest salary. How would you confirm this with data?

I’m not sure how you confirm this, but I don’t see how it’s not true. Do you (or other people on this thread) genuinely believe that the best software engineers aren’t demanding the best salaries? Who doesn’t want to make more money given the opportunity?

>Who doesn’t want to make more money given the opportunity?

Tons of people remain at jobs they enjoy/companies they like even if they suspect they could probably get a better offer elsewhere. There are plenty of people elsewhere in the country who aren't interested in moving to Silicon Valley and working for one of the large firms.

More generally there's probably some relation between quality (which is an elusive variable to measure and can be dependent on managers/teams/etc.) and salary--but it's far from a perfect correlation.

Re: Don’t hire top talent; hire for weaknesses

#130
post #90

>Instead of “how can we find the smartest people?” think about “how can we find people who will make our team stronger?” I would have thought that was obvious? Why would you hire someone unless you had a need for their talents? I guess I'm probably thinking small-business. At the biggest companies, they probably just hire and hope to fit them in because hiring for exact needs doesn't really scale.

You only need to read a few dozen job adverts to see that tech companies are focused entirely on technical ability and don't hire for other skills. How often do you see "must know Typescript, expert in Docker, passionate about algorithms" compared to "must understand writing documentation, expert in sprint planning, passionate about user value"? Skills that aren't tech are rarely valued by tech companies despite the…

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