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Don’t hire top talent; hire for weaknesses

benjiweber.co.uk

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Re: Don’t hire top talent; hire for weaknesses

#101

Post by EvilEy3 »

w0mbat wrote: post #60

I think this guy might be on to something. Every time you add a person to the team who is more stupid than you, it pushes you further up the stack rank. Why hire people with loyalty when you can hire people who can't quit because they can't find their way out of the building? Don't waste money on high salaries, just find people too dumb to realize you are paying them in Monopoly money. Soon you will be the top perfor…

You're probably bring downvoted for the attitude, but you're right.

I've worked for a couple of low-mid tier companies and their core was always mediocre talent who is there because it's the top of the world for them. Top talent will always gravitate towards money, prestige. Sure there are some outliers that will work for food and change world, but if you can earn more why wouldn't you?

Re: Don’t hire top talent; hire for weaknesses

#102

Post by rlanday »

tsimionescu wrote: post #97
jghn wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of those areas where more companies need to realize they're not a FAANG. As Joel has pointed out in the past, you're not getting the cream of the crop as a normal company. Likewise you probably neither need nor even want the top. However what you do need is to plug a few holes here and there. As a hiring manager I find it much better to think in terms of a skill mesh. I'm always looking to bring the colle…

Not sure why you think FAANG is getting the cream of the crop. Looking at stuff like Rob Pike's comments about Go's use for the general Google employee base [0], I think there is quite a lot of misalignment between the aura of mystique from the outside and the situation as seen from the inside. [0]“The key point here is our programmers are Googlers, they’re not researchers. They’re typically, fairly young, fresh out…

> They’re not capable of understanding a brilliant language

Maybe your language isn’t so “brilliant” if some of the smartest programmers in the world still can’t figure it out.

Re: Don’t hire top talent; hire for weaknesses

#103

Post by kowlo »

EvilEy3 wrote: post #95

Sorry, we don't buy snake oil here. Try this bs on LinkedIn they absolutely love a lot of words justifying hiring inferior talent.

You speak on behalf of HN, however, this submission appears to be on the front-page.

It seems that the majority of voting users browsing HN throughout the duration of this posts existence do indeed love this bs.

Re: Don’t hire top talent; hire for weaknesses

#104

Post by meandmycode »

EvilEy3 wrote: post #98
onion2k wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You only need to read a few dozen job adverts to see that tech companies are focused entirely on technical ability and don't hire for other skills. How often do you see "must know Typescript, expert in Docker, passionate about algorithms" compared to "must understand writing documentation, expert in sprint planning, passionate about user value"? Skills that aren't tech are rarely valued by tech companies despite the…

> expert in sprint planning Because they need tech expert and not PO? > passionate about user value Lmao, this is such a vague and useless statement that it is barely worth commenting. What the hell is "passion", how do quantify it and how do you use it? What happens when person you hired for "passion" loses it? > Sometimes the best hire for the team is the second best developer but the best person-who-can-explain-th…

> What the hell is "passion", how do quantify it and how do you use it? What happens when person you hired for "passion" loses it?

It's harder to quantify than 'expert in typescript' and maybe ill described and abused, but there are a diverse set of needs when it comes to engineering, it's not just deeply technical, it's also broadly technical with strong planning, entrepreneurial thought process etc.. my, perhaps naive view is the world definitely needs both of these so keep and open mind and stay respectful.. 'lmao' I'm certain you wouldn't do in person, debate is good but cmon, always put the extra effort in to understand and communicate your own gut reactions

Re: Don’t hire top talent; hire for weaknesses

#105

Post by jstummbillig »

tsimionescu wrote: post #97
jghn wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of those areas where more companies need to realize they're not a FAANG. As Joel has pointed out in the past, you're not getting the cream of the crop as a normal company. Likewise you probably neither need nor even want the top. However what you do need is to plug a few holes here and there. As a hiring manager I find it much better to think in terms of a skill mesh. I'm always looking to bring the colle…

Not sure why you think FAANG is getting the cream of the crop. Looking at stuff like Rob Pike's comments about Go's use for the general Google employee base [0], I think there is quite a lot of misalignment between the aura of mystique from the outside and the situation as seen from the inside. [0]“The key point here is our programmers are Googlers, they’re not researchers. They’re typically, fairly young, fresh out…

> Not sure why you think FAANG is getting the cream of the crop.

The best coders can demand the highest salary. If you can afford to pay the highest salary you are in an advanced position position to get the best coders. FAANG can afford to pay the highest salary.

Anecdotal evidence to the contrary does not cancel this mechanism.

Re: Don’t hire top talent; hire for weaknesses

#107

Post by johbjo »

jstummbillig wrote: post #105
tsimionescu wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why you think FAANG is getting the cream of the crop. Looking at stuff like Rob Pike's comments about Go's use for the general Google employee base [0], I think there is quite a lot of misalignment between the aura of mystique from the outside and the situation as seen from the inside. [0]“The key point here is our programmers are Googlers, they’re not researchers. They’re typically, fairly young, fresh out…

> Not sure why you think FAANG is getting the cream of the crop. The best coders can demand the highest salary. If you can afford to pay the highest salary you are in an advanced position position to get the best coders. FAANG can afford to pay the highest salary. Anecdotal evidence to the contrary does not cancel this mechanism.

> The best coders can demand the highest salary.

How would you confirm this with data?

Re: Don’t hire top talent; hire for weaknesses

#108

Post by onion2k »

EvilEy3 wrote: post #98
onion2k wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You only need to read a few dozen job adverts to see that tech companies are focused entirely on technical ability and don't hire for other skills. How often do you see "must know Typescript, expert in Docker, passionate about algorithms" compared to "must understand writing documentation, expert in sprint planning, passionate about user value"? Skills that aren't tech are rarely valued by tech companies despite the…

> expert in sprint planning Because they need tech expert and not PO? > passionate about user value Lmao, this is such a vague and useless statement that it is barely worth commenting. What the hell is "passion", how do quantify it and how do you use it? What happens when person you hired for "passion" loses it? > Sometimes the best hire for the team is the second best developer but the best person-who-can-explain-th…

Sprint planning is a collaboration between dev and product. If your devs aren't good at it they'll agree to far too much stuff in a sprint, or they won't spot what things are blocked, or they'll fail to report what happened in a sprint in the retrospective, which impacts everything from planning the next sprint to writing release notes to when the company can do marketing about a major release.

Hiring developers who are amazing at algorithms but terrible at everything else has huge, far-reaching consequences for everything a business does. Being a good developer is about so much more than writing good code.

Re: Don’t hire top talent; hire for weaknesses

#109

Post by johbjo »

> “We hire top talent”

These phrases are mainly intended to flatter the employees, to make them grateful for being "chosen", and maybe to increase trust and confidence among them.

Choosing who to hire (once basic requirements are met), is much less important than the morale and attitudes among employees. Much better to say "top talent" than "randomly picked".

But, the hiring process is a huge factor in the perception of the identity of the employees.

Re: Don’t hire top talent; hire for weaknesses

#110

Post by aahortwwy »

jstummbillig wrote: post #105
tsimionescu wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why you think FAANG is getting the cream of the crop. Looking at stuff like Rob Pike's comments about Go's use for the general Google employee base [0], I think there is quite a lot of misalignment between the aura of mystique from the outside and the situation as seen from the inside. [0]“The key point here is our programmers are Googlers, they’re not researchers. They’re typically, fairly young, fresh out…

> Not sure why you think FAANG is getting the cream of the crop. The best coders can demand the highest salary. If you can afford to pay the highest salary you are in an advanced position position to get the best coders. FAANG can afford to pay the highest salary. Anecdotal evidence to the contrary does not cancel this mechanism.

> The best coders can demand the highest salary.

Not really. This is one of those things that sounds correct but when you actually sit down and examine the claim not only is there sparse evidence to support it but it's not entirely clear what the claim even means.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vudnMLzZjTg

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