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Min wage would be $44 / hour if it had grown at same rate as Wall Street bonuses

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Re: Min wage would be $44 / hour if it had grown at same rate as Wall Street bonuses

#151

Post by insert_coin »

Udik wrote: post #145
speedplane wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Billionaires are criminal by definition Sadly, billionaires aren’t criminal by definition (no such laws), but the existence of billionaires sure does cut against the idea of a perfect market (in a “perfect” market there cannot be profits).

Definition of a "perfect" market, first line: "All firms sell an identical product" Seems one of those cases where perfect doesn't mean anything like "good". It's entirely irrelevant to the case at point.

It is the whole point.

By "definition", if it's being bought in a "perfect-free-market" it is only because it's been deemed good enough.

Re: Min wage would be $44 / hour if it had grown at same rate as Wall Street bonuses

#152

Post by Melting_Harps »

f6v wrote: post #111
stretchwithme wrote: post #64

A society with no technology has hardly any wealth gap. People who can leverage multiple technologies can multiply their efforts. Mass communication, mass distribution and automation of all sorts. But Wall Street bonuses are subsidized by the fact the government socializes their biggest failures. Bailouts just encourage them to take greater risks, leveraging debt in dangerous ways that will blow up the system again.

What kind of technology enabled wealth gap in feudal society? It seems it was more about religion being used to subdue people.

> What kind of technology enabled wealth gap in feudal society? It seems it was more about religion being used to subdue people.

I'd argue the advent of centralized currencies did more harm than any and all standing armies combined.

When you think about what a parasitical entity does in biology, you realize that simply killing a host is not evolutionary advantageous--their are 3 types of parasitism, not to be confused with the 3 types of symbiosis of which parasitism lies in.

So instead the parasite seeks to keep the host alive as long as possible in order to extract resources/life from it in order to propagate and spread itself and its DNA/RNA into Nature in order to infect other hosts and rinse and repeat.

Simply by demanding that peasants/serfs pay taxes and conduct all commerce in the coin that bares the issuers legacy has brought about so much of Human misery and perpetual serfdom that it baffles me what immense gravity their is in just the last 10,000 years since the supposed advent of Agriculture and therefore modern Society.

I've spent the last ~15 years of my life focused on this very topic, and while I have gained a great deal of insight and probably did a PhD's worth of research, it would take my entire Lifetime to really dissect all of this.

Re: Min wage would be $44 / hour if it had grown at same rate as Wall Street bonuses

#153

Post by insert_coin »

rStar wrote: post #113
speedplane wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Billionaires are criminal by definition Sadly, billionaires aren’t criminal by definition (no such laws), but the existence of billionaires sure does cut against the idea of a perfect market (in a “perfect” market there cannot be profits).

in a functional market, competition for profit exists. because billionaires exist, we know they control their market, squeezing out competitors through artificial and illegal means.

> squeezing out competitors through artificial and illegal means.

Their means are legal. They make them legal though "regulation". It is why they do not get fines (most of the time) nor are in jail.

Re: Min wage would be $44 / hour if it had grown at same rate as Wall Street bonuses

#154

Post by ZephyrBlu »

kristopolous wrote: post #147
ZephyrBlu wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$20/hr in NZ is nowhere near poverty. It's 80% of what STEM grads typically earn, for bottom of the barrel work.

So stem is still 25% more? Everyone who works hard has a right to live comfortably and not in fear of some giant cost coming forcing them to squirrel away piles of money. Stem should be about building tomorrow and making a better society, the personal fortune building has polluted the field and is distracting us from more important problems. Having a $500,000 stock portfolio shouldn't be mandatory for a decent life.…

STEM jobs generally pay more than non-STEM jobs, and I'd say graduate jobs range between $20-26/hr.

If someone without a degree is making $20/hr and you're making barely more than that, why the hell did you waste 4 years to get a degree? I know someone who is in this exact situation.

The economics don't make sense.

Re: Min wage would be $44 / hour if it had grown at same rate as Wall Street bonuses

#155

Post by insert_coin »

bluecalm wrote: post #142
speedplane wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Billionaires are criminal by definition Sadly, billionaires aren’t criminal by definition (no such laws), but the existence of billionaires sure does cut against the idea of a perfect market (in a “perfect” market there cannot be profits).

That assumes infinite number of competent, driven and well funded market participants that jump on every opportunity or inefficiency . The real world is anything but that. There is very small number of competent driven people and vast ocean of opportunity and value waiting to be created. If you deliver the value people will be more than happy to pay. Maybe someone competes with you if the field is ripe enough or mayb…

Have you seen the realstate market? Competition is all there is. The food market, probably the oldest market, is full of startups and more enter the space each year. There is no shortage of untapped competition in any industry.

Re: Min wage would be $44 / hour if it had grown at same rate as Wall Street bonuses

#156

Post by TeeMassive »

f6v wrote: post #111
stretchwithme wrote: post #64

A society with no technology has hardly any wealth gap. People who can leverage multiple technologies can multiply their efforts. Mass communication, mass distribution and automation of all sorts. But Wall Street bonuses are subsidized by the fact the government socializes their biggest failures. Bailouts just encourage them to take greater risks, leveraging debt in dangerous ways that will blow up the system again.

What kind of technology enabled wealth gap in feudal society? It seems it was more about religion being used to subdue people.

The lack of technology. With not much surplus in terms of food and resources children of serfs and peasants have to work and never do much else meanwhile nobles learn to read and educate themselves. And even with reading, without the printing press, all copying was mostly done by the Church, which means no Voltaire, no reading of the Bible to find that indulgences are BS and just a lack of awareness that things could be better.

Re: Min wage would be $44 / hour if it had grown at same rate as Wall Street bonuses

#157

Post by 127 »

Negitivefrags wrote: post #92
kristopolous wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok but during a crisis what's the alternative? The alternative now is to disconnect the systems from the possibility of contagion, but the nature of crisis is essentially an acknowledgment of a failure to achieve in those efforts. So what then, really?

The alturnative is letting things fail. It causes a lot of pain in the short term with people losing their jobs and general economic fallout. This causes a lot of suffering. But on the other hand, the rich will lose more, and during the rebuilding a different set of people will gain the upper hand and end up on top. It's hard to get the political will to actually allow what needs to happen to fix wealth inequality.

Inflation is wealth transfer from those who hold government fiat (the poor and the middle class) to those who hold assets (the rich).

Deflation is the same thing in reverse.

Makes it pretty clear why the government is fighting deflation so hard.

Re: Min wage would be $44 / hour if it had grown at same rate as Wall Street bonuses

#158

Post by insert_coin »

jb775 wrote: post #59
Rebelgecko wrote: post #17

If minimum wage had grown at the same rate as the US federal debt it would be $408/hour

That irrelevant so long as the USA controls the world's money printing machine and has the biggest guns.

It is not irrelevant, or no less relevant than the headline comparison.

Re: Min wage would be $44 / hour if it had grown at same rate as Wall Street bonuses

#159

Post by TeeMassive »

Melting_Harps wrote: post #137
Aunche wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bailouts just encourage them to take greater risks, leveraging debt in dangerous ways that will blow up the system again. In practice, this hasn't happened. As a whole, financial institutions are more risk-adverse than ever. Keep in mind, that they don't want another Dodd-Frank.

> As a whole, financial institutions are more risk-adverse than ever. And this includes Hedgefunds, like Melvin Capital, Citadel and the like? Doesn't the Robinhood and GME thing DIRECTLY contradict what you're saying? Furthermore, they are over leveraged on real estate in teh US and BlackRock accounts for every greater RE holdings than post 2008 housing crisis. I'm not sure what you are talking about, Dodd-Frank is…

> And this includes Hedgefunds, like Melvin Capital, Citadel and the like? Doesn't the Robinhood and GME thing DIRECTLY contradict what you're saying?

Meme stocks are a thing born out of social media just very recently and will most likely not happen that much given that now edge funds are aware of it and have probably already deployed the appropriate counter-measures.

Re: Min wage would be $44 / hour if it had grown at same rate as Wall Street bonuses

#160

Post by kristopolous »

ZephyrBlu wrote: post #154
kristopolous wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So stem is still 25% more? Everyone who works hard has a right to live comfortably and not in fear of some giant cost coming forcing them to squirrel away piles of money. Stem should be about building tomorrow and making a better society, the personal fortune building has polluted the field and is distracting us from more important problems. Having a $500,000 stock portfolio shouldn't be mandatory for a decent life.…

STEM jobs generally pay more than non-STEM jobs, and I'd say graduate jobs range between $20-26/hr. If someone without a degree is making $20/hr and you're making barely more than that, why the hell did you waste 4 years to get a degree? I know someone who is in this exact situation. The economics don't make sense.

Because you want to do it.

I'd honestly still be a programmer if the pay was poor. In fact, I do it for free quite a bit and I enjoy it more.

People are motivated by more than mindless greed and universities shouldn't be transactional skills training camps. It should be about building an enlightened and educated society.

College tuition in New Zealand are not structured like the United States. It's much more reasonable

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