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Min wage would be $44 / hour if it had grown at same rate as Wall Street bonuses

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Re: Min wage would be $44 / hour if it had grown at same rate as Wall Street bonuses

#111

Post by f6v »

stretchwithme wrote: post #64

A society with no technology has hardly any wealth gap. People who can leverage multiple technologies can multiply their efforts. Mass communication, mass distribution and automation of all sorts. But Wall Street bonuses are subsidized by the fact the government socializes their biggest failures. Bailouts just encourage them to take greater risks, leveraging debt in dangerous ways that will blow up the system again.

What kind of technology enabled wealth gap in feudal society? It seems it was more about religion being used to subdue people.

Re: Min wage would be $44 / hour if it had grown at same rate as Wall Street bonuses

#112

Post by ZephyrBlu »

downandout wrote: post #70
stretchwithme wrote: post #64

A society with no technology has hardly any wealth gap. People who can leverage multiple technologies can multiply their efforts. Mass communication, mass distribution and automation of all sorts. But Wall Street bonuses are subsidized by the fact the government socializes their biggest failures. Bailouts just encourage them to take greater risks, leveraging debt in dangerous ways that will blow up the system again.

Taxpayers not only recovered everything from the 2008 bailouts, they actually earned a $15.3 billion profit. How is that “socializing their biggest failures”? From [1]: Early estimates for the total cost of the bailout to the government were as much as $700 billion, however TARP recovered funds totalling $441.7 billion from $426.4 billion invested, earning a $15.3 billion profit or an annualized rate of return of 0.6…

You left off an extremely relevant detail from your quote: "... annualized rate of return of 0.6% and perhaps a loss when adjusted for inflation"

Re: Min wage would be $44 / hour if it had grown at same rate as Wall Street bonuses

#113

Post by rStar »

speedplane wrote: post #103
rStar wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

billionaires are criminal by definition, and their existence proves the absence of a (econ 101 style) market in whatever industry they came from. we can only fix this problem through efficient regulation of monopolies.

> Billionaires are criminal by definition Sadly, billionaires aren’t criminal by definition (no such laws), but the existence of billionaires sure does cut against the idea of a perfect market (in a “perfect” market there cannot be profits).

in a functional market, competition for profit exists. because billionaires exist, we know they control their market, squeezing out competitors through artificial and illegal means.

Re: Min wage would be $44 / hour if it had grown at same rate as Wall Street bonuses

#114

Post by WalterBright »

speedplane wrote: post #103
rStar wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

billionaires are criminal by definition, and their existence proves the absence of a (econ 101 style) market in whatever industry they came from. we can only fix this problem through efficient regulation of monopolies.

> Billionaires are criminal by definition Sadly, billionaires aren’t criminal by definition (no such laws), but the existence of billionaires sure does cut against the idea of a perfect market (in a “perfect” market there cannot be profits).

> in a “perfect” market there cannot be profits

I'm curious what your definition of a perfect market is.

In free markets, without profits the companies will fail.

Re: Min wage would be $44 / hour if it had grown at same rate as Wall Street bonuses

#115

Post by kristopolous »

holler wrote: post #9

ok but how much would a sandwich cost?

New Zealand prices for Subway, after converting currencies are more or less the same as American prices (+/- $.50 - the ingredients are slightly different)

The people controlling the price of the sandwich are also the ones who want to pay their workers less.

We shouldn't cower and run at the thought of the bosses using strategies to fight back by comically jacking up their prices and then cynically blaming it on the government.

It's to be expected.

Re: Min wage would be $44 / hour if it had grown at same rate as Wall Street bonuses

#117

Post by donw »

bawolff wrote: post #79
stretchwithme wrote: post #64

A society with no technology has hardly any wealth gap. People who can leverage multiple technologies can multiply their efforts. Mass communication, mass distribution and automation of all sorts. But Wall Street bonuses are subsidized by the fact the government socializes their biggest failures. Bailouts just encourage them to take greater risks, leveraging debt in dangerous ways that will blow up the system again.

What's "no technology", because ancient rome was full of giant wealth gaps. Maybe if you mean hunter-gatherer societies, but i don't really know enough about them to comment.

Rome was an incredibly advanced society with a great deal of technology, though.

Re: Min wage would be $44 / hour if it had grown at same rate as Wall Street bonuses

#118

Post by downandout »

ZephyrBlu wrote: post #112
downandout wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taxpayers not only recovered everything from the 2008 bailouts, they actually earned a $15.3 billion profit. How is that “socializing their biggest failures”? From [1]: Early estimates for the total cost of the bailout to the government were as much as $700 billion, however TARP recovered funds totalling $441.7 billion from $426.4 billion invested, earning a $15.3 billion profit or an annualized rate of return of 0.6…

You left off an extremely relevant detail from your quote: "... annualized rate of return of 0.6% and perhaps a loss when adjusted for inflation"

“Perhaps” isn’t a data point - it’s speculation, and is thus irrelevant. The money was recovered at a $15.3 billion profit. If they had included a number and a reference to the data backing up their guess that “perhaps” it might have been a tiny inflation-adjusted loss, I would have included it.

I’m not sure what your point in bringing it up is either. The point is that the bailouts were fully recovered, and that is undisputed. HN loves its pedantry, but there is little value to this particular incarnation of it.

Re: Min wage would be $44 / hour if it had grown at same rate as Wall Street bonuses

#119

Post by kristopolous »

Aunche wrote: post #96
kevingadd wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you compare menu prices at fast food chains in areas with high minimum wages (i.e. Seattle's $15) vs areas with low minimum wages, (i.e. the US's federal ~$8) the cost of items is higher but not as high as you might think. You can see some comparison data here, or find other sources (I don't have any bookmarked to dig up, I last did the research on this a few months ago...) https://www.restaurantbusinessonline.com…

That's just a wage increase from a single point in the supply chain. With a national minimum wage increase, all of the incremental wage incremental wage increases get passed to the consumer.

Or perhaps deceases the waste and abuse of the corporation. Maybe they don't do the executive island getaway or have the company condo in the Swiss alps.

They'll jack up the prices for any reason, don't get me wrong, but it's not because they have to pay people more. It's because they see it as an excuse to pay themselves more.

Re: Min wage would be $44 / hour if it had grown at same rate as Wall Street bonuses

#120

Post by xupybd »

worker767424 wrote: post #74
xupybd wrote: post #14

NZ just raised our min wage to $20 an hour. I work at least 50 hours a week. A teenager at MacDonalds now earns a good fraction of my income if they work the same hours. Despite my 4 year degree, near decade of experience and the responsibility's that I hold.

I looked at some tech jobs in Wellington and shocked at how little they pay compared to SF. The cost of living in cheaper, but not that much cheaper.

Yeah if you pair it with the average house price it's not great https://i.stuff.co.nz/life-style/homed/housing-affordability...

Despite my comment I like life here. I wasn't really trying to give more than a data point from another part of the world.

My personal view is that a strong enough economy should be able to provide most people with a better than minimum wage job. But if you bump the minimum wage too high you simply raise the price of everything.

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