A far-right extremist allegedly plotted to blow up Amazon data centers • Hacker News Board

Re: A far-right extremist allegedly plotted to blow up Amazon data centers

#91

Post by luckylion » Sat, Apr 10, 2021, 1:24 PM UTC

roflc0ptic wrote: post #72

luckylion wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I consider Kaczynski an environmentalist and he's an anarchist. Take a time machine and move him straight from 1978 to 2018, what would he target? My guess is data centers would be on the list.

But that’s total conjecture. You’re just saying “well, if I made someone up, they’d target data centers.” My point is that the non-made up radical environmentalists/communists aren’t targeting data centers. My source is that in a previous iteration of this life, I happened to know a lot of communists and radical environmentalists.

Kaczynski isn't made up, he really existed, and still does. He's not a communist though, and I don't think communists have an issue with data centers, they love making lists as well. I'm not sure about your communists friends' positions on data centers if they felt they were being used as a tool of oppression, but I have a hard time imagining someone being unironically communist these days.

Re: A far-right extremist allegedly plotted to blow up Amazon data centers

#92

Post by roflc0ptic » Sat, Apr 10, 2021, 1:59 PM UTC

luckylion wrote: post #91

roflc0ptic wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that’s total conjecture. You’re just saying “well, if I made someone up, they’d target data centers.” My point is that the non-made up radical environmentalists/communists aren’t targeting data centers. My source is that in a previous iteration of this life, I happened to know a lot of communists and radical environmentalists.

Kaczynski isn't made up, he really existed, and still does. He's not a communist though, and I don't think communists have an issue with data centers, they love making lists as well. I'm not sure about your communists friends' positions on data centers if they felt they were being used as a tool of oppression, but I have a hard time imagining someone being unironically communist these days.

Kaczynski is real, but time traveler Kaczynski is not. The radical environmentalists Im familiar with are focused on protecting forests, or (the more ambitious ones) want to destroy power infrastructure. Blowing up data centers would be kind of a half measure for e.g. the deep green resistance crowd - if you’re willing to die for it, might as well go for the throat

For a taste of unironic communism in 2021: https://www.pslweb.org/ Some good people, some bad people, all in the throes of some pretty terrible ideology. shrug

To be clear, not endorsing any of these ideological positions, just happen to be familiar with them owing to a misspent youth.

Re: A far-right extremist allegedly plotted to blow up Amazon data centers

#93

Post by aww_dang » Sat, Apr 10, 2021, 2:14 PM UTC

felixgallo wrote: post #89

aww_dang wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Instead of looking for equivalence or ranking which side is worse, perhaps we should blanketly condemn political violence. >You posting that NPR link is incoherent From where I stand your entire reply is incoherent and inflammatory. You accuse me of seeking equivalence before citing the most inflammatory examples of political violence by one side. This despite the fact that I explicitly suggest that equivalence or…

at the end of the day, it is important which flavor is actually terrorism, and the fact that it tends to be concentrated in neo-islamic and neo-fascist right wing people is a tool that we can use to help fix the problem.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO https://www.aclu.org/blog/national-security/discriminatory-p...

1) Given that those succumbing to group think and confirmation bias are generally unaware of their biases, how would we know that we are not experiencing something similar now?

2) What are the implications for civil liberties, if the state targets political opponents of the current administration?

3) Could these issues be resolved targeting political violence generally, instead of making partisan pleas and accusations?

4) If political extremism & intolerance are issues driven by the contentious political environment, are these partisan blame games contributing to the climate of toxic political divisiveness or helping to resolve it?

Re: A far-right extremist allegedly plotted to blow up Amazon data centers

#94

Post by kkoncevicius » Sat, Apr 10, 2021, 2:17 PM UTC

_Microft wrote: post #34

supernova87a wrote: post #16

I wonder, does such a person share a lot of characteristics of his mental state with someone who on the other side of the political spectrum, breaks into factory chicken farms to free birds, or who torches an entire dealership of SUVs to save the planet? Is there not something a little bit fascinating in realizing that regardless of the particular political belief driving them to do something, there must be something…

> I wonder, does such a person share a lot of characteristics of his mental state with someone who on the other side of the political spectrum This sounds like the "horseshoe theory": "In political science and popular discourse, the horseshoe theory asserts that the far-left and the far-right, rather than being at opposite and opposing ends of a linear political continuum, closely resemble one another, analogous to t…

There is an alternative explanation for the observations of "horseshoe" theory. One of the examples often given by that theory is how both far-right and far-left is more authoritarian compared with mainstream. To me the better model would be viewing the current political paradigm as being extreme about individual freedoms.

In other words - when you are at the south pole every direction is north. This tells us more about where we currently are, and not about the similarity of those other directions.

Re: A far-right extremist allegedly plotted to blow up Amazon data centers

#95

Post by rvz » Sat, Apr 10, 2021, 2:22 PM UTC

makomk wrote: post #17

krapp wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the same reason a getaway driver is part of a bank robbery despite "not doing anything illegal."

The whole reason a getaway driver exists is to help people conduct a bank robbery, whereas just protesting outside Congress is not only legal but constitutionally protected. By that logic, the elected Democrat officials who continued to attend BLM "protests" night after night knowing that every night, people at those specific "protests" were violently attacking cops using them as cover were much more criminal - yet t…

You know the rule here and especially on sites like this one. Logic and hypocrisy doesn't apply to the left; only to anything against them which is only the 'far-right'.

As for BLM, don't worry. All those who donated millions to the BLM cause have just funded the lifestyle of their dear founder for her $1.4M LA home. So much for the so-called 'Marxist revolution' that they all desperately needed.

There's a term called for this and its called 'an exit scam'.

[0] https://www.dailywire.com/news/blm-co-founder-buys-1-4-milli...

Re: A far-right extremist allegedly plotted to blow up Amazon data centers

#96

Post by mr_woozy » Sat, Apr 10, 2021, 2:22 PM UTC

ahelwer wrote: post #70

ThinkBeat wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for sharing that. I was not aware of the term, but I have been aware of the idea. In a narrow manner I have seen this up close. The people some call Antifa, a term they also use themselves, will show up for protests and demonstrations. Nobody invited them, many would prefer that they were not there. In general, they detract fromt the message of the protests. Black clad people with various accoutrements need…

As someone with quite a few left-wing friends, this comment was pretty funny to read. I have no idea why people think they can pick apart the inner machinations of the minds of people they've seemingly never spoken to, not into whose ideology they have the slightest insight or interest. Very strong "boomer opining at their suburban kitchen table about the problem with today's youths" energy. Any given person who iden…

"you don't know me mannnnnnnnn"

>Any given person who identifies as an antifascist is vastly more likely to have deeply sincere & considered political beliefs than essentially anyone else you know in your life.

jfc bloviate more why don't you.

please get offended at sweeping generalizations about the left and the respond by making sweeping generalizations about everyone not identified with the left. I'm sure it'll convince everyone.

Re: A far-right extremist allegedly plotted to blow up Amazon data centers

#97

Post by sg47 » Sat, Apr 10, 2021, 2:31 PM UTC

hntroll666 wrote: post #21

The FBI specializes in this kind of operation, providing encouragement, support, and money to unhappy young men who would most likely never get around to actually doing anything were it not for the FBI's involvement, always in such a way that it somehow doesn't quite legally qualify as entrapment, despite looking like entrapment to any normal person. The FBI are corrupt enforcers for the left now. A dozen agents will…

We have apologists for terrorists on HN now?

Re: A far-right extremist allegedly plotted to blow up Amazon data centers

#98

Post by the_only_law » Sat, Apr 10, 2021, 2:32 PM UTC

sg47 wrote: post #97

hntroll666 wrote: post #21

The FBI specializes in this kind of operation, providing encouragement, support, and money to unhappy young men who would most likely never get around to actually doing anything were it not for the FBI's involvement, always in such a way that it somehow doesn't quite legally qualify as entrapment, despite looking like entrapment to any normal person. The FBI are corrupt enforcers for the left now. A dozen agents will…

We have apologists for terrorists on HN now?

You may be wasting your energy complaining about a 20 day old account named hntroll

Re: A far-right extremist allegedly plotted to blow up Amazon data centers

#99

Post by rvz » Sat, Apr 10, 2021, 2:35 PM UTC

aww_dang wrote: post #25

supernova87a wrote: post #16

I wonder, does such a person share a lot of characteristics of his mental state with someone who on the other side of the political spectrum, breaks into factory chicken farms to free birds, or who torches an entire dealership of SUVs to save the planet? Is there not something a little bit fascinating in realizing that regardless of the particular political belief driving them to do something, there must be something…

That's the problem with crazy people, they don't realize their ideas are out of bounds.

That's very true. It's quite scary to see two very extreme sides both trying to achieve hopelessly impossible and utopian goals through either a violent 'revolution' or an 'insurrection' because it is the result they didn't like or get.

Maybe there are some that are so crazy that they see Nazis everywhere on the internet or with someone that they disagree with and call for a medieval-like banishment from society i.e cancel culture. Possibly suffering from VR sickness from playing Wolfenstein VR, but who knows.

Now you have another extremist that 'allegedly' planned to attack an AWS data-center for whatever reason and ultimately was willing to die trying. Perhaps some of these crazy people just believe anything they see on the internet through a mysterious Q person conspiracy theory and go down that rabbit hole and here we are.

Re: A far-right extremist allegedly plotted to blow up Amazon data centers

#100

Post by luckylion » Sat, Apr 10, 2021, 2:44 PM UTC

roflc0ptic wrote: post #92

luckylion wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kaczynski isn't made up, he really existed, and still does. He's not a communist though, and I don't think communists have an issue with data centers, they love making lists as well. I'm not sure about your communists friends' positions on data centers if they felt they were being used as a tool of oppression, but I have a hard time imagining someone being unironically communist these days.

Kaczynski is real, but time traveler Kaczynski is not. The radical environmentalists Im familiar with are focused on protecting forests, or (the more ambitious ones) want to destroy power infrastructure. Blowing up data centers would be kind of a half measure for e.g. the deep green resistance crowd - if you’re willing to die for it, might as well go for the throat For a taste of unironic communism in 2021: https://w…

It would fit well for Kaczynski's mix of anarchism, anti-smart-tech-revolution and environmentalism, I believe.

He went after AI researchers back then, attacking their hardware would make sense. I mean, I'm probably just a few years and a few bad turns away from seeing AWS & co ("Surveillance Capitalism, Inc.") as a large harm to humanity that needs to be stopped, so I'd be surprised if nobody is thinking that today. The scale of data centers likely makes them super hard targets for the super majority of groups or individuals, which is why we don't see a lot of attacks on them (yet).

I don't have a problem with communists. I do believe that they're coming from a good place, but are fundamentally mistaken in their analysis which does lead some of them down some very dark paths. It just feels like believing in the geocentric model of the universe (or flat earth, I suppose that's more current), which sounds like lots of fun, but would turn weird if you start to realize the person you're talking to actually believes it and isn't joking.