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A far-right extremist allegedly plotted to blow up Amazon data centers

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Re: A far-right extremist allegedly plotted to blow up Amazon data centers

#51

Post by dempseye »

_teyd wrote: post #27
Ygg2 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because leftist used revolutionary terror to achieve their goals as well. It's not whataboutism if they have a history of doing it.

Whataboutism doesnt mean that what was brought up is not true, just that it distracts from the original criticism. The classic example is “Soviet Union has problems? Well, look how the US is treating black people.”

If someone is criticizing you in bad faith, and from a position of utter hypocrisy, it is fair enough to point that out. There is nothing to gain from battling an adversary like that on their terms.

Re: A far-right extremist allegedly plotted to blow up Amazon data centers

#52

Post by aww_dang »

dempseye wrote: post #46
aww_dang wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The willingness to use violence against people or property seems like it would be a further leap. Operating outside of the mainstream ideologies isn't necessarily a slippery slope. Reasonable people should be able to disagree without using violence.

Do you believe, by extension from this, that states are governed by unreasonable people, and that if they were reasonable war would never be necessary?

Unreasonable or perhaps immoral?

If we start from the premise that the state is defined as an institution monopolizing violence, then it stands to reason that one or the other is true.

If the ends justify the means and the morality of the methods used are irrelevant, then perhaps we can say that the state generally or wars specifically are rational.

These are questions of absolutism, which is fine in theory, but in practice we need to make room for pragmatism.

But back to the specific context of the article, the use of violence against an Amazon datacenter seems unreasonable. It fails a basic sanity check. The individual undoubtedly could have chosen other non-violent methods to express himself.

Re: A far-right extremist allegedly plotted to blow up Amazon data centers

#53

Post by DanBC »

aww_dang wrote: post #50
DanBC wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need to be clear that domestic terrorism in the US is evenly split between pseudo-Islamic extremism and the far right. Terrorist action from the left currently counts for a tiny amount of this violence.

While the riots of last summer were not characterized as terrorism, they were instances of political violence resulting in massive property damage and multiple deaths. https://www.google.com/search?q=fiery+but+mostly+peaceful There's a palatable element of partisanship distorting the presentation of these issues. Instead of looking for equivalence or ranking which side is worse, perhaps we should blanketly condemn po…

> While the riots of last summer were not characterized as terrorism,

You can see how this destroys anything that you're about to say, right?

To try to engage with your point: there's a difference between a demonstration (BLM) and bombing a church (far right). There's a difference between riots (BLM) and mass murder at a synagogue (far right). There's a difference between organising a march (BLM) and driving cars into protestors at that march (far right).

Stop trying to draw equivalence between these things. They are not the same.

> There's a palatable element of partisanship

The FBI isn't a partisan organisation and they're very clear: the current domestic threats are from the far right and islamic extremism.

Re: A far-right extremist allegedly plotted to blow up Amazon data centers

#54

Post by slim »

supernova87a wrote: post #16

I wonder, does such a person share a lot of characteristics of his mental state with someone who on the other side of the political spectrum, breaks into factory chicken farms to free birds, or who torches an entire dealership of SUVs to save the planet? Is there not something a little bit fascinating in realizing that regardless of the particular political belief driving them to do something, there must be something…

it's not difficult to understand how he feels. he feels unfree and under control. he can't express himself and get heard. so the only remaining way to get in control of his own life is violence.

Re: A far-right extremist allegedly plotted to blow up Amazon data centers

#55

Post by refurb »

krapp wrote: post #6
COGlory wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How was he part of the "insurrection" if he did nothing illegal?

For the same reason a getaway driver is part of a bank robbery despite "not doing anything illegal."

Jesus. Just showing up at a rally at your elected representatives place of employment is now the same as “being a getaway driver at a bank robbery”?

Re: A far-right extremist allegedly plotted to blow up Amazon data centers

#56

Post by sofixa »

beej71 wrote: post #4

Not to turn a blind eye to what would have been a tragic loss of life, but how resistant is Amazon to such an attack, data-wise? How much collateral economic damage can you do by taking down an AWS data center?

Very little.

AWS is comprised of independent regions, each with at least three availability zones, each one comprised of at least a datacenter. AZs sometimes fail, and the impact is usually minimal.

AWS services are usually at least redundant across 3 AZ, and properly deployed client architectures should be as well. So taking out a whole AZ will cost lots of money and lost capacity, but in terms of data loss and user-facing impact, it's probably minimal.

Re: A far-right extremist allegedly plotted to blow up Amazon data centers

#57

Post by sofixa »

mcny wrote: post #43
idownvoted wrote: post #28

Get ready for more of this. If Amazon hadn’t acquiesced to the left wing (eg. by taking down Parker) there would have been an equal likelihood that a left wing extremist would plot an attack. Even more so, if a would-be terrorist can see data centers as virtually zero-casualty targets. Not to mention state actors who will have an easier time „nudging“ domestic actors into „standing up for what’s right“ due to the low…

Not to trivialize any of the politics but to me the key takeaway is if my revenue relies on aws, I should seriously consider multi region. Given enough time, there is bound to be a disaster at some point. If all my data is in one data center, ... I don’t know enough about aws so I think I need to study this a little bit more.

Even multi-AZ is sufficient against "crazy people attacking a DC".

Re: A far-right extremist allegedly plotted to blow up Amazon data centers

#58

Post by sokoloff »

mcny wrote: post #43
idownvoted wrote: post #28

Get ready for more of this. If Amazon hadn’t acquiesced to the left wing (eg. by taking down Parker) there would have been an equal likelihood that a left wing extremist would plot an attack. Even more so, if a would-be terrorist can see data centers as virtually zero-casualty targets. Not to mention state actors who will have an easier time „nudging“ domestic actors into „standing up for what’s right“ due to the low…

Not to trivialize any of the politics but to me the key takeaway is if my revenue relies on aws, I should seriously consider multi region. Given enough time, there is bound to be a disaster at some point. If all my data is in one data center, ... I don’t know enough about aws so I think I need to study this a little bit more.

Include reading about “availability zones” in your research. Your continuity plan might just need a multi-AZ strategy.

Re: A far-right extremist allegedly plotted to blow up Amazon data centers

#59

Post by aww_dang »

DanBC wrote: post #53
aww_dang wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While the riots of last summer were not characterized as terrorism, they were instances of political violence resulting in massive property damage and multiple deaths. https://www.google.com/search?q=fiery+but+mostly+peaceful There's a palatable element of partisanship distorting the presentation of these issues. Instead of looking for equivalence or ranking which side is worse, perhaps we should blanketly condemn po…

> While the riots of last summer were not characterized as terrorism, You can see how this destroys anything that you're about to say, right? To try to engage with your point: there's a difference between a demonstration (BLM) and bombing a church (far right). There's a difference between riots (BLM) and mass murder at a synagogue (far right). There's a difference between organising a march (BLM) and driving cars int…

It is hard to have this discussion here. It is almost as if you didn't read my comment at all. Instead you go straight for inflammatory.

https://www.npr.org/2018/01/26/580677742/the-massive-case-of...

From NPR (2018), widely regarded as having a left slant, "The Massive Case Of Collective Amnesia: The FBI Has Been Political From The Start"

Re: A far-right extremist allegedly plotted to blow up Amazon data centers

#60

Post by RobertoG »

imgabe wrote: post #38
dempseye wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"this is so right that I am justified in destroying property, people to get it done" I do not think that this is necessarily a sign of something "haywire in the mind". The powerful use this logic all the time, and yet it is not a mainstream view that ordering an air strike, for instance, is clearly a sign of mental illness. Perhaps it should be.

It’s only wrong if you fail. If you succeed you were a “revolutionary”.

I think it's more like: if you are on your own you are crazy, if you are in a big group you are revolutionary, if you win you were right, or something like that.
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