The patent troll that won a $308M jury trial against Apple • Hacker News Board

Re: The patent troll that won a $308M jury trial against Apple

#101

Post by breck » Sat, Apr 10, 2021, 5:32 AM UTC

monocasa wrote: post #74

JamesBarney wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The patent's purpose is to incentivize innovation. Some industries need this (medical) others don't (software). So if you got rid of patents innovation in some industries will be fine (software) and others will be wrecked (medical). Patents are not the only way to incentivize innovation, and I think it'd be great to experiment with some other ways. Socializing medicine is completely orthogonal to this issue. Unless y…

It's funny, I've heard from biomed engineers that it's clear to them that patents don't work in the medical field, unlike how they're effective in the software field. It feels like every field knows that they're a cash grab without a lot of benefits, but assumes there's some industry that they don't work in where they're needed.

Exactly this. I worked for a few years in big tech, and it was crystal clear that patents and copyrights were awful in tech. But I believed the lie that maybe in medicine, they were needed.

I spent a few years in medical research and realized that ohhhh shit, even worse in this industry.

The whole thing is a big lie.

End copyrights. End patents. The ideal length is zero. There is no case to be made to support them. We need to abolish them outright.

Re: The patent troll that won a $308M jury trial against Apple

#102

Post by rswail » Sat, Apr 10, 2021, 5:37 AM UTC

aeturnum wrote: post #14

Our current IP system is remarkable in that it is both very complex and, despite that complexity, it is entirely reducible to a system for allocating fees for entities to pay. Using you own IP? You pay your fees to your legal team. Using IP owned by someone else? Pay your legal team and their legal team and them. Except for the situation where you are much larger than the IP owner - then they get nothing from you and…

The purpose of IPR is not to "keep[ing] creators in control of their creations". It's to "promote the progress of science and useful arts". That's the whole point, to "allow... commercial activity to continue around IP".

Creators are given a limited period of monopoly over the rights for reproduction and use of expression (copyright), ideas (patents), branding (trademark) to allow them to earn some return on their creations, but at the same time put the expression, ideas or branding into the public domain.

Copyright terms have been bastardized by Disney et al and author estates to extend the terms beyond anything reasonable.

Patent trolls and an unfunded USPTO and compliant court districts have bastardized patents.

Re: The patent troll that won a $308M jury trial against Apple

#103

Post by mitchdoogle » Sat, Apr 10, 2021, 5:45 AM UTC

I think we need a new definition of innovation. One that doesn't limit the potential of inventors and one that doesn't limit the future. We need shorter time spans for software given how quickly things change. We need a measure of societal good beyond dollars and cents. Our goal should be improving the life of people, not improving the profits of corporations.

Re: The patent troll that won a $308M jury trial against Apple

#104

Post by estaseuropano » Sat, Apr 10, 2021, 5:47 AM UTC

aeturnum wrote: post #14

Our current IP system is remarkable in that it is both very complex and, despite that complexity, it is entirely reducible to a system for allocating fees for entities to pay. Using you own IP? You pay your fees to your legal team. Using IP owned by someone else? Pay your legal team and their legal team and them. Except for the situation where you are much larger than the IP owner - then they get nothing from you and…

Your are equivocating patents and copyright, which are both IPR and yet worlds apart. There is some similarity in that both have their purposes and both are clearly being abused by some actors.

Re: The patent troll that won a $308M jury trial against Apple

#105

Post by saagarjha » Sat, Apr 10, 2021, 5:47 AM UTC

opportune wrote: post #97

lettergram wrote: post #87

I’ll give a contrary view point to most “patent trolls”. I’m an inventor (100+ Issued patents), I develop POCs and concepts well beyond my ability to productionize. That’s not to say I couldnt create a product, just that I don’t have the resources. However, I do have the resources to develop novel techniques. Does that mean I didn’t invent the process- no, I did invent a new process. I just didn’t build them into a p…

Are you actually inventing things or just filing a bunch of patents?

I guess you can decide for yourself: https://patents.google.com/?inventor=Austin+Walters

Re: The patent troll that won a $308M jury trial against Apple

#106

Post by mitchdoogle » Sat, Apr 10, 2021, 5:48 AM UTC

xoa wrote: post #17

freedomben wrote: post #9

Every so often a patent troll story comes up on HN, and people like me bitch about how broken the system is and get group therapy from shouting into the wind on a web forum. What can we actually do . How do we start fixing this problem?

> What can we actually do. How do we start fixing this problem? Do the hard grunt work of getting enough of a broad base of political support for Congress to enact reform. Seriously, that's what it comes down to. And it's not some impossible thing even for a minority so long as it's focused. Precisely because majorities don't really pay much attention to such things and these days are fairly fixed, even a fraction of…

Would you share what you wrote to your congressman?

Re: The patent troll that won a $308M jury trial against Apple

#107

Post by mnadkvlb » Sat, Apr 10, 2021, 5:50 AM UTC

lettergram wrote: post #87

I’ll give a contrary view point to most “patent trolls”. I’m an inventor (100+ Issued patents), I develop POCs and concepts well beyond my ability to productionize. That’s not to say I couldnt create a product, just that I don’t have the resources. However, I do have the resources to develop novel techniques. Does that mean I didn’t invent the process- no, I did invent a new process. I just didn’t build them into a p…

You dont have to publish them, keep them secret !! go sell your work as a secret if your work is so important, why do you have to publish it and then litigate anyone else who comes up with a similar techniques.

Re: The patent troll that won a $308M jury trial against Apple

#108

Post by mitchdoogle » Sat, Apr 10, 2021, 5:52 AM UTC

rz2k wrote: post #53

hourislate wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies like Apple, AMZN, MSFT, have enough resources and money to change the system but it wouldn't benefit them in the end. A few hundred million might seem like a lot to us but it's trivial to them. Sure they will defend themselves, they've got a lot of Lawyers on payroll that need to do something to earn their salaries. I can't imagine the carnage they could collectively unleash on the Judge, Jury, County, Stat…

Strategically, it is a barrier to entry for small competitors who can't afford the legal defense. That doesn't mean that Apple and Google are intentionally trying to preserve the legal environment for patent trolls to operate, but on some level it still is in their interest.

They know at some point they will play the role of the troll

Re: The patent troll that won a $308M jury trial against Apple

#109

Post by dlivingston » Sat, Apr 10, 2021, 5:56 AM UTC

breck wrote: post #90

lettergram wrote: post #87

I’ll give a contrary view point to most “patent trolls”. I’m an inventor (100+ Issued patents), I develop POCs and concepts well beyond my ability to productionize. That’s not to say I couldnt create a product, just that I don’t have the resources. However, I do have the resources to develop novel techniques. Does that mean I didn’t invent the process- no, I did invent a new process. I just didn’t build them into a p…

Human slavery was also the game until 150 years ago. Patents and copyright are immoral, or the word immoral has no meaning. Don’t play immoral games. Think from first principles.

To start, human slavery was certainly not abolished 150 years ago...[0]

[0]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_the_21st_century

Re: The patent troll that won a $308M jury trial against Apple

#110

Post by mitchdoogle » Sat, Apr 10, 2021, 5:59 AM UTC

gruez wrote: post #26

henvic wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Watch The Patent Scam, by the X-Plane's (flight simulator) founder Austin Meyer. https://www.thepatentscam.com/

I always find "watch this documentary" to be pointless. If the person's already convinced that patent abuse is bad, they don't need to watch a 2 hour video to reconfirm their beliefs. If the person is sitting on the fence or not convinced, there are better ways to provide information to them than getting them to stare at a screen for 2 hours.

I disagree with your general sentiment. The people here reading these comments may be on the fence. Maybe they're leaning one way or another. Maybe they need some more convincing. Someone who wants to learn more can benefit greatly from a documentary or a good article on the subject. And these comments don't just exist in this moment. They will be available in search for a long time to come.