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The patent troll that won a $308M jury trial against Apple

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Re: The patent troll that won a $308M jury trial against Apple

#31

Every so often a patent troll story comes up on HN, and people like me bitch about how broken the system is and get group therapy from shouting into the wind on a web forum. What can we actually do . How do we start fixing this problem?

What do people turn to when the legal system fails them?

Re: The patent troll that won a $308M jury trial against Apple

#33
post #3

A parasite resulting from society's outdated patent laws, with a simple fix. 1. Only make practicing entities eligible for IP damages. 2. Reduce the duration of all patents by 50%.

So you're a small startup with no sales trying to build a prototype, but you patented your idea so that you get a priority date, and also because a patent is the first thing investors want to see to know that your idea won't just be copied by anyone else. Now you just get run over by the big boys?

Now you're in the same situation, but you sell your patent to another entity because you can't afford yourself to sue the big boys for damage. You or anyone else you delegate should have no recourse at all?

Re: The patent troll that won a $308M jury trial against Apple

#34
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The solution is the same. Submarine patents shouldn't exist.

I agree, but they stopped making them 25 years ago. This company is taking advantage of legacy laws. You couldn't replicate this business model today because it's already been outlawed.

Congress should just invalidate all submarine patents, full stop.

When the 13th amendment was passed slave owners didn't get to "grandfather in" their existing slaves. Extreme example, but the point is sometimes old laws are so harmful to society we should not allow people to continue abusing them.

Re: The patent troll that won a $308M jury trial against Apple

#35
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What can we actually do. How do we start fixing this problem? Do the hard grunt work of getting enough of a broad base of political support for Congress to enact reform. Seriously, that's what it comes down to. And it's not some impossible thing even for a minority so long as it's focused. Precisely because majorities don't really pay much attention to such things and these days are fairly fixed, even a fraction of…

Or dont do patents at all.

Patents were made for a time before ubiquitous multinational corporations. If there are multiple sources of truth and markets for what is protected invention, then it greatly dilutes the power of that patent. This ends up hamstringing the countries most dependent on patenting to encourage innovation because we are still beholden to foreign interest who file their patents with the USPO or sell to an American troll. The US is the most fastidious in their preservation of patent law despite its many flaws and this is why we will lose out most in the global turning against protected invention.

Re: The patent troll that won a $308M jury trial against Apple

#36
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What can we actually do. How do we start fixing this problem? Do the hard grunt work of getting enough of a broad base of political support for Congress to enact reform. Seriously, that's what it comes down to. And it's not some impossible thing even for a minority so long as it's focused. Precisely because majorities don't really pay much attention to such things and these days are fairly fixed, even a fraction of…

Or dont do patents at all.

You still need patents. Healthcare is an obvious example, if we eliminated patents we'd have 0 new drugs pass FDA approval over the next decade.

But software is very different from medical patents.

Re: The patent troll that won a $308M jury trial against Apple

#37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or dont do patents at all.

You still need patents. Healthcare is an obvious example, if we eliminated patents we'd have 0 new drugs pass FDA approval over the next decade. But software is very different from medical patents.

Really? How about socializing all of medicine.

Re: The patent troll that won a $308M jury trial against Apple

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or dont do patents at all.

Patents were made for a time before ubiquitous multinational corporations. If there are multiple sources of truth and markets for what is protected invention, then it greatly dilutes the power of that patent. This ends up hamstringing the countries most dependent on patenting to encourage innovation because we are still beholden to foreign interest who file their patents with the USPO or sell to an American troll. Th…

I believe you'll find that ubiquitous multinational corporations do indeed outdate the patent, by a couple hundred years.

Re: The patent troll that won a $308M jury trial against Apple

#39
This is a very sensationalized, editorialized opinion-piece article. I would like to see something more objective, and substantive.

> So fast-forward a few years to 1981. Mr. Harvey sat down with an electrical engineer whose name was Jim Cuddihy. And together, Mr. Harvey and Mr. Cuddihy put together ground-breaking inventions in communications technology that were ahead of their time.

It sounds like they made something novel and interesting!

> PMC’s business “is to license out the technology of Mr. Harvey and Mr. Cuddihy so that companies that want to use that technology with permission can do so,” Subramanian explained. “The company has over 20 licensees, and they've earned millions and millions of dollars from companies who have paid for the right to use PMC's technology."

> To the extent that Harvey and Cuddihy ever had an idea for an actual product, it seems to have been a kind of computerized graphical overlay on top of a TV screen. At some point in the early 1990s, PMC demonstrated a prototype to some potential investors in New York City. The prototype system consisted of a VCR and a computer that were hooked up to another TV screen, which combined the video streams in some way. It wasn’t connected to the internet.

But they were given the patent for it right? And they clearly had some kind of a working prototype.

> Whatever this contraption was, it was likely pathetically out of date when it was shown off.

Oh so their "contraption" was pathetically out of date..

> PMC never made any for sale. And as the CEO admitted, they didn’t even spend on R&D. Instead, they embraced the fantasy language of the patent troll—one in which real companies, like Sony and Arris and other licensees, “took licenses in our inventions because they were using those inventions,” in the words of PMC’s general counsel, Thomas Scott.

REAL COMPANIES, like Sony and Arris and other licensees.

This is the crux of the issue right here. Basically, they developed the technology but were never able to productize it themselves. So they sold the tech to a bunch of other companies. And then later they discovered that the tech was being used by many more companies, in many more products.

This doesn't sound like a typical patent-troll case to me. Apple can afford to pay 300 mil for some tech that they didn't invent. God knows they've stolen way more than that.

Re: The patent troll that won a $308M jury trial against Apple

#40

Every so often a patent troll story comes up on HN, and people like me bitch about how broken the system is and get group therapy from shouting into the wind on a web forum. What can we actually do . How do we start fixing this problem?

What do people turn to when the legal system fails them?

> What do people turn to when the legal system fails them?

This doesn't mean anything. It's just cynicism masquerading as fatalism. We thankfully don't live in an absolutist monarchy. Laws can change, and in fact do change all the time. Election upsets happen all the time. But like a sibling comment said, no one wants to actually go out and do the grunt work.

Whining on Twitter is certainly easier than canvassing a neighborhood.

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