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Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

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Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#871

Post by IG_Semmelweiss »

mjevans wrote: post #749
zwkrt wrote: post #639

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re not stupid you’ve just never had to deal with a real actual problem in your life. Unemployment is a cause of or certainly concomitant with having very high stress and a very poor outlook on the future. In a town like Bessemer the thought process is something like “I don’t have a job, I’m not going to get one, I have no money, and this situation is not going to change.” And it’s not just you thinking this, you…

No way out either. In a literal sense. There's no national program for helping people relocate to areas where they can have a meaningful job, a home that's affordable to OWN, and hopefully also community as a result. I'm NOT saying it should be forced, I'm saying it should be an option.

Actually this is such a simple thing to implement and also would be wonderful to test out.

Subsidize 2 luggages and a 1-way bus ticket per household member, to anyone that wants to move to a new location. No questions asked. You can do it X amount of times in your life, and anyone with income below (a multiple of poverty rate here) qualifies. That's it.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#872

Post by alfiedotwtf »

tombert wrote: post #664
FearlessNebula wrote: post #590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm stupid, but why does unemployment cause violent crime?

I think being really broke greatly hinders your ability to think rationally. I never committed any violent crimes, but I know throughout most of 2016 I was really really broke (about $15,000 credit card debt, 3 months of unpaid rent, a lawsuit from my landlord for the back rent). In the process I debated reaching out to one of those payday loan places, despite the fact that I knew they were scams. My desperate brain…

> I think being really broke greatly hinders your ability to think rationally

A lot of comments here seem to think that it has something to do with morals, but from living in poor places, what I gather is that people have no other options when they’re backed into a corner.

If you’re unemployed and you need money for rent and food, what the he’ll are you going to do? Survival mode kicks in, and you’ll do anything to make the next day/week. This could include steeling (to consume or sell) and mugging people (actual money, but probably less of a problem in the near future with everyone using digital payments). Now throw into the mix drugs to numb to pain of living an abysmal life... which are astronomically expensive, so most of the time your only option is to steel and mug more.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#873

Post by courtf »

parliament32 wrote: post #199
Someone1234 wrote: post #132

HN is very consistently anti-union. My question is this: Where did you get information about unions? Because people keep mentioning their "bad reputation" and then start listing off a bunch of "facts" that read like they're bullets straight out of one of those anti-union videos during onboard at several major employers (Walmart, Target, Amazon, etc). So anti-union people exactly where does your information come from?…

Personally, it came from working for a massive union (government, not US) for many years. The downsides are real: hard to fire bad performers, your merits don't matter at all (the guy doing the bare minimum job description gets the same raises as you), wayyy too much focus on seniority (for promotions, vacation selection, etc), and overall just too many rules (for example, "unlimited vacation" works great with my cur…

I agree with all this, but it's not like the alternative actually solves these issues. Instead of a boring list sorted by seniority it becomes a boring list sorted by arbitrary internal politics. There isn't a company on earth that can accurately determine who the top performers are once we start talking about any mildly subjective role. Programming performance is especially difficult to quantify, mostly because the people doing the bean counting have no idea what programming really consists of.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#874

Post by spectramax »

regextegrity wrote: post #661
yibg wrote: post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that a bit misleading? I don't have official bathroom breaks either, and I do just fine.

What? I don't mean scheduled bathroom breaks, I mean they aren't given enough leeway during the day to even use the bathroom. There are many reports of them peeing in bottles and shitting in plastic bags.

These are stories few and between. Literally hundreds of thousands of employees wouldn't remain quiet for not allowing bathroom breaks.

You're pursuaded by anecdotal evidence of certain incident that may have happened. It is difficult to believe hundreds of thousands of workers around the world working in Amazon warehouses have not enmasse complained they can't go to bathroom.

This is a media-driven narrative. Squeeky wheels make more noise.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#875

Post by refurb »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #755
yeetman21 wrote: post #733

Earlier quoted context omitted.

who the fuck is begging for scraps. with 15$ an hour they are living like kings in their hometown, above the median income

No one is living like kings on $15 per hour anywhere in the US. Unless your definition of kings includes lack of retirement security, income security, health security, and working back breaking shift work at odd hours. They will especially be vulnerable in their 50 to 65 years, when they will become unemployable for manual labor work. They'll be able to put a roof over their head, and not worry about their kids' next…

Two parents working at Amazon almost hit median household income in the US. Houses in that part of AL cost You’re painting way too bleak of a picture based on zero data.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#876

Post by kbenson »

tombert wrote: post #664
FearlessNebula wrote: post #590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm stupid, but why does unemployment cause violent crime?

I think being really broke greatly hinders your ability to think rationally. I never committed any violent crimes, but I know throughout most of 2016 I was really really broke (about $15,000 credit card debt, 3 months of unpaid rent, a lawsuit from my landlord for the back rent). In the process I debated reaching out to one of those payday loan places, despite the fact that I knew they were scams. My desperate brain…

> I debated reaching out to one of those payday loan places, despite the fact that I knew they were scams.

They aren't scams, but they are only useful for a very narrow band of people in a very narrow band of circumstances. For the vast majority of people that want one of those loans, they are better off not getting it. It's entirely possible to get the loan and use it as intended, it's just the most the people that need it aren't in a position to do so, and the lenders go out of their way to make it real easy to just roll the loan over into a new ones that kicks the problem down the road to the next payday after this one.[1]

1: It's a dark pattern. "You borrowed $400 the other week and you owe use $500 today? How about we fund a new loan for $400 before your payment, roll that into your current payment, and all you have to do is pay the $100 difference this payday, and you can just pay it all next payday when it's more convenient?" Now, the lender has an installment plan for 700-1500% APR as long as they can get the client to keep doing that (but the client does have to choose to do it every time).

At least, that's how it was a decade or so ago. I think it got even more regulated since then, and they can't charge 25% interest per payday anymore (you can likely thank the NY AG if so).

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#877

Post by astrange »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #670
gruez wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So let me get this straight: companies shouldn't be investing money into revitalizing impoverished areas?

It's complicated. When you're the only game in town you enter an ethical gray area where the community is your hostage. Things seem alright now but what happens when the mines run dry?

Is Amazon a monopsony employer in this town? It sounds like they aren't since their warehouse created 1500 jobs and the population is 27000.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#878

Post by Ericson2314 »

xcambar wrote: post #710
tombert wrote: post #664

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think being really broke greatly hinders your ability to think rationally. I never committed any violent crimes, but I know throughout most of 2016 I was really really broke (about $15,000 credit card debt, 3 months of unpaid rent, a lawsuit from my landlord for the back rent). In the process I debated reaching out to one of those payday loan places, despite the fact that I knew they were scams. My desperate brain…

Thanks for the honest story, congrats on pulling yourself out of debt and into (quoting you) privileged life. I see the HN crowd as rather monotonic, and thanks to stories like yours, it shows me wrong, and that’s for the best.

"monotonous" I think you meant :). Though the identical etymology makes this a bit silly.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#879

Post by rightbyte »

prepend wrote: post #679
specialist wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the downsides are real: hard to fire bad performers, your merits don't matter at all Which work environments are merit based? Which employers fire bad performers?

I’ve worked for a half dozen software companies and they were all merit based and fired bad performers. They certainly weren’t perfect and mistakes were made, but as staff I perceived that pay was strongly correlated to performance and as management I worked to have pay correspond to performance and had access to data that demonstrated that. I’ve worked for orgs where this wasn’t true and I avoid those orgs and prefe…

> as management I worked to have pay correspond to performance and had access to data that demonstrated that.

What type of data? Nothing but qualitative analysis of devs work gives any hint on performance IMHO.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#880

Post by akudha »

gruez wrote: post #396
asdff wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon moving into these impovershed areas, becoming the majority employer, and having absolute influence over the local governance and electorate they themselves employ makes these places de facto a company town. Brilliant move, totally evil genius move, but brilliant.

So let me get this straight: companies shouldn't be investing money into revitalizing impoverished areas?

Didn't Walmart do this in a lot of small towns? And sometimes just pack up and leave? What happens when they leave?
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