Live data from Hacker News

Embrace the Grind

jacobian.org

51–60 of 320 posts

Re: Embrace the Grind

#51
post #16

This quote stuck out to me: > More trouble than the trick was worth? To you, probably. But not to magicians. It makes me realize how fundamentally different the values are between some fields. The amount of time magicians put into the craft is mind-boggling. I see it also with how movies are made -- to think that sometimes they're spending days or months and tens of thousands of dollars, building sets, waiting for th…

> Maybe a similar sort of thing with software would be spending time on animations -- the result is a cool flourish, but it lasts 0.15 seconds and it took 3 days to get it just right, and it's impossible to quantify how worthwhile it was beyond a gut feeling. Even still, that's not even in the same ballpark in terms of time or effort. The difference is that movies are all or nothing productions in an industry set up…

> they emphasize the creative aspect far more relative to tech since they're competing over form not function

Yes and no. There are a lot of "make it fit in the box" requirements when making a movie. The unions mandate a certain make up of the crew, and a certain size, the stage rental costs are a certain amount, there are various laws and corporate budgets to take into account; all that adds up to a certain number of shots you can do in a day, which adds up to a dollar amount, and ALL THOSE THINGS cascade down to enabling only certain creative things. The difference between a brilliant director and a ok one is not the beauty of their art, it's their ability to pull-off something incredible in the middle of all that machinery. In a way, it's WORKING that machinery in your favor.

So while, yes, the industry is set up to support a creative endeavor, that industry runs on a template that makes certain things possible and certain things very difficult. But brilliant producers and directors find ways around it.

Re: Embrace the Grind

#53

My secret weapon for bug diagnosis is that when a regression is reported on a system without an automatic bisect tool, while everyone else is trying to reason about the problem with guesswork and code inspection, I sit down and spend 2 hours just bisecting manually (full sync, rebuild and install of old versions of the software). This provides a guaranteed culprit CL, often one that no one guessed, and also a potenti…

Heh, my answer is that I just refuse to build or work on systems where bugs aren't always super obvious. If the system gets too complex, I bisect the system.

I think I've infuriated many colleagues with this attitude, and I'm sure there's at least half of the people here who would similarly be angry working with someone like that.

Honestly, I'm not very good at writing software, I just tend to be similar to the author -- I grind more than I out-think most of my problems, and it results in a deliverable that solves it, usually, which ends up being enough to move on with.

Re: Embrace the Grind

#54

When I joined a mentoring program targeted at recent college grads, I expected to be teaching things like interview prep, resume writing, negotiation skills, communication skills, and how to deliver results in a workplace. For about half of the mentees, that's roughly true. However, for the other half much of my mentoring ends up being about time management, following through on commitments, and putting in the effort…

I'm not gonna disagree but I want to add a couple things. 1. Kids with ADHD probably can't develop executive function as fast or as far as other kids. I'm pretty sure I have it, it explains the repeated performance reports of "You're good when you apply yourself and useless when you don't." Unfortunately I struggle to _choose_ to apply myself. Willpower doesn't seem to come naturally to me, even after 10 years as a p…

ADHD is a difficult topic to discuss on HN. I'll preface this by saying that I'm not doubting your situation, or any other commenter's particular situation. This [section of my] comment is meant to be general:

In the context of this mentoring group, we go through phases where almost everyone suspects they have ADHD for various reasons. This is usually triggered by one of two things: Either someone shares an online "Do you have ADHD quiz?" that is sponsored by Takeda or another ADHD medication manufacturer, or a front-page Reddit infographic misrepresents ADHD as something like "Do you some times forget people's names? Maybe you have ADHD!"

The reality is that ADHD is very challenging for those that have it, but the pop-culture definition of ADHD has become so vague that people who don't have ADHD are increasingly convinced that common life experiences are symptoms of ADHD.

Focusing is hard. Studying is hard. The Grind is hard. It's normal to struggle to focus, but it's even more of a struggle for those with ADHD. However, having to work to focus for extended periods of time, in and of itself, is not an ADHD symptom, it's just life. ADHD is a much more severe impediment.

(Again, not referring to the parent comment): Anyone curious should avoid self-diagnosis and seek a trusted professional. Ideally not a family doctor who simply writes prescriptions on request, but someone who can recommend self-guided therapy programs and combination treatment. Adderall isn't all it's made out to be, especially after the initial motivating effects wear off and you're left with the realities of long-term stimulant use, which are nowhere near as exciting as the first few doses.

> What if they are, though? What if it's like height, where genetics sets a range and environment picks a point in that range? If I had starved as a child, I would be shorter than I am now. But if I had eaten more, I would not be taller. I'm about the same height as my parents are.

Genetics and upbringing may set a baseline for focus and motivation, but those traits are demonstrably not set in stone. Contrary to your example, diet does have a significant influence on height, but it's not the sole determinant.

Height isn't a good example, though. Consider something like running capacity. Some people are naturally more athletic than others, but barring severe disorders, everyone can develop more running capacity through training. Someone who gives up and never tries to increase their capacity may not believe this, but it's true. An average person can't simply work their way up to competing with Olympic sprinters blessed with perfect genetics, but they can significantly increase their running capacity from baseline by putting in the work.

Likewise, attention is a learned skill. Some have more baseline attention span than others, but it can be increased through training and practice. ADHD modulates this, but it doesn't prevent practice from helping. If anything, people with ADHD need to invest more effort into training their attention spans than those without.

> Willpower doesn't seem to come naturally to me, even after 10 years as a professional programmer. Adderall didn't help

Adderall and other stimulants don't provide willpower, contrary to popular belief. Only people without tolerance will experience a temporary motivation boost from stimulants. This effect diminishes as tolerance sets in, which is one of several reasons why drugs like Adderall aren't successful for treating disorders like depression.

Willpower is another learned skill. Expecting it to come naturally won't work forever. You have to learn to embrace the grind, do the work, and power through the urges to give up and do something easier if you want to get anywhere.

> I don't exercise at all because it's not my interest.

The reality is that the things we need to do aren't always going to line up with the things we like to do. You're lucky that you have a natural interest in programming, but you can't expect every necessary activity to have a natural interest behind it. Some amount of physical activity is essentially required for a healthy existence. You may not be interested in it, but that doesn't exempt you from requiring it and it certainly doesn't mean you won't benefit from it.

Some times the things we have to do in life aren't immediately enjoyable. It's on us to find ways to make them more enjoyable (e.g. find a sport you like, or take up walking), and some times we just have to do the unenjoyable thing for the sake of progress.

Re: Embrace the Grind

#55
What a fascinating story.

I think of success as having infinite patience for doing a few boring things repeatedly.

Some other parts are having a higher mission to embrace the grind;Some call this purpose.

Something else I have observed by studying other engineers is the theme of not depending on your technical skills alone. One needs to market/show their work to the right audience, own equity in businesses/business.

"As a technical person in your career, you must not rely on your technical brilliance or rest on your laurels. You must acquire some financial education. There is a tendency for technical people to think that they are the best; That they will always be on top; That will be always be creative; That their inventions won’t be usurped quickly by newer inventions. However, history says otherwise. Life was quite unpleasant to Tesla; He died alone and poor depending on handouts from former associates. A tragic end for one the most creative minds of the early twentieth century."

https://leveragethoughts.substack.com/p/dont-hinge-your-care...

Re: Embrace the Grind

#56
post #26

Maybe this is a naive question, but why couldn't you just pick a bug at random, fix it, and move to the next? You said eventually you worked through all issues in about a year of time. How did having the issues prioritized from the get go really mattered, if you ended up closing them all anyways? If I had to guess, the magic trick was simply investing in tackling all the bugs one after another for a year until they'r…

Quite often what happens in these cases is that people get paralyzed looking at the list of open things, and rather than just digging in and doing something to chip away at the pile, there are meetings and discussions and noise which generates a lot of heat and sound and stress, but doesn't actually make any positive progress towards resolving the issues.

An meanwhile things keep getting thrown on the pile.

Re: Embrace the Grind

#57

> For example, I once joined a team maintaining a system that was drowning in bugs. There were something like two thousand open bug reports. Nothing was tagged, categorized, or prioritized. The team couldn’t agree on which issues to tackle > I spent almost three weeks in that room, and emerged with every bug report reviewed, tagged, categorized, and prioritized. Honestly, this is one of those traps a team can fall in…

> Which is why it's so utterly toxic that corporate America runs on an interrupt driven system, with meetings sprinkled carelessly across engineer calendars.

I agree with this statement and your other points. I’ve noticed a more insidious variant of this behavior: the expectation of interruptions. Some groups have such frequent priority shifts and/or a culture of fire fighting or door knocking such that even with a relatively open schedule, one is dissuaded from engaging in longer stretches of work for fear of having it all go to waste when the next meteor strike arrives.

Re: Embrace the Grind

#58
post #16

This quote stuck out to me: > More trouble than the trick was worth? To you, probably. But not to magicians. It makes me realize how fundamentally different the values are between some fields. The amount of time magicians put into the craft is mind-boggling. I see it also with how movies are made -- to think that sometimes they're spending days or months and tens of thousands of dollars, building sets, waiting for th…

I wanted to be a professional magician when I was younger, and there’s a single-handed cut that I learned from Daryl Easton (at a seminar he gave at some Holiday Inn). It took me a month or two of solid practice to get it down, but over thirty years later I can just pick up a deck of cards and flip that cut out like it was nothing. I was saddened to learn that he had committed suicide a while back. Every time I do that flourish playing cards with people or whatever I just remember that time when one of the world’s best magicians hung out with me for a few minutes after his seminar just to make sure I had it down.

Re: Embrace the Grind

#59
Every time I hear about the "Three virtues", I always think "Well, there's 'laziness' and there's laziness". I know when I or someone else is being 'lazy' or lazy. Same thing for the other virtues. This is why we appreciate those who embrace the grind.

Re: Embrace the Grind

#60

OK, so you spend hours and days sealing threes of clubs into tea packets. But how do you make the volunteer pick the three of clubs during the show?

The article links to this Wikipedia page, looks like you can "force" the user to pick a specific card.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forcing_(magic)

Post reply on HN