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Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

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Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#651

Post by 6gvONxR4sf7o »

at-fates-hands wrote: post #539
fartcannon wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a tragic way to frame it. The USA (and all the world governments) need to take care of it's poor people better so they don't have to choose indentured servitude over poverty. Edit: Added the bit about all the world governments

I agree though. If we ever want to have a chance at closing the gap between low and middle classes, then we need a basic income for people making under a certain income. Taking away the hardships of deciding whether to put gas in your car or get groceries isn't a decision someone should have to make. An extra $500-1K per month for those people would make a world of difference and ease a lot of those everyday decision…

Can I ask where you heard that we could have given every person in the country a million each? I've seen that quoted all over the place, and can't figure out why, given that it's off by a factor of about a hundred.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#652

Post by chrisseaton »

bena wrote: post #454
toby wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guilds are a little different from unions in practice. They set minimum standards but there's no group negotiation based on seniority or anything like that. Studios are free to pay some hot rising star 100x as much as the guy who has been a character actor for 30 years as long as he's making the minimum and getting his breaks and meals and stuff. It's also a challenge to get into a guild, SAG has minimum requirements…

Why are you making his argument for him? He pointed out that not all unions are the doom and gloom version where you can't carry lightbulbs (seriously people, don't ever use that example, it's right out of the anti-union video, obvious tell) and good people can't get promotions because of blah blah blah. You then responded by saying it doesn't count because it's different. Yeah, that's the point. A "union" isn't a th…

Lol not every comment reply has to be an absolute refutation of the parent comment! They were agreeing with the person they were replying to... wow can't have that can we!

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#653

Post by woah »

ineptech wrote: post #398
parliament32 wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, it came from working for a massive union (government, not US) for many years. The downsides are real: hard to fire bad performers, your merits don't matter at all (the guy doing the bare minimum job description gets the same raises as you), wayyy too much focus on seniority (for promotions, vacation selection, etc), and overall just too many rules (for example, "unlimited vacation" works great with my cur…

I think that the value of a lot of unions is obscured by how well-established they are. Historically, unions are a solution to a specific problem - the employer can (for one reason or another) get away with jerking employees around and treating them badly. But if you form a union, and the employer is forced to stop some of their the worst behaviors, and then it stays that way for a generation or two, it feels like th…

> not having to fear losing your job because the mayor/governor/etc flipped parties

Rewarding supporters with cushy jobs (and firing the old workers) en mass is known as patronage and is a minor abuse of power, akin to corruption. Well-developed democracies take steps to prevent it, not because it's bad for the workers, but because it is bad for the fabric of government. The US enacted these reforms more than 100 years ago, starting with the Pendleton Civil Service Reform act. Public sector unions had very little to do with it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pendleton_Civil_Service_Reform...

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#654

Post by sokoloff »

psds2 wrote: post #397
sct202 wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They could suck up the losses of closing a 1 year old warehouse to send a signal. Walmart has claimed unfixable plumbing problems at union stores and closed them in the past.

They also stopped selling fresh meat through a butcher window all across the US when the butchers unionized.

If in their judgment, it became not in their best interests economically for them to continue doing it, what else would have them do?

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#655

Post by bluGill »

avs733 wrote: post #586
flavius29663 wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$15 an hour is more than you can get in almost any place in Europe or the world for unskilled labor, what are you talking about?

I love the label unskilled. I don't think most of my colleagues in academia could physically complete a shift in an Amazon warehouse. Is that a skill? The labels unskilled and entry level are used to depress wage expectations not accurately represent the requirements of the work performed because the work is deemed to be of low economic value.

Most of your peers in academia could build up the needed physical fitness in a few days and within a week be just as productive as someone else who has been there for years (assuming similar body - obviously someone who is physically disabled can't compete). By contrast it would take the warehouse workers years of study to write software that is any good.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#656

Post by furyofantares »

DC1350 wrote: post #441
parliament32 wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, it came from working for a massive union (government, not US) for many years. The downsides are real: hard to fire bad performers, your merits don't matter at all (the guy doing the bare minimum job description gets the same raises as you), wayyy too much focus on seniority (for promotions, vacation selection, etc), and overall just too many rules (for example, "unlimited vacation" works great with my cur…

> hard to fire bad performers Why do you care about this as an employee? You get nothing when somebody else makes the company more money.

> Why do you care about this as an employee? You get nothing when somebody else makes the company more money.

Compensation often includes stock; so you do get something when somebody else makes the company money. And if nothing else, the company doing well may help you feel job security and be better able to make plans for your future.

You also may enjoy making the best product you can. When another employee gets in the way of that, it can make it harder to enjoy your work.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#657

Post by cheeze »

zwkrt wrote: post #639
FearlessNebula wrote: post #590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm stupid, but why does unemployment cause violent crime?

You’re not stupid you’ve just never had to deal with a real actual problem in your life. Unemployment is a cause of or certainly concomitant with having very high stress and a very poor outlook on the future. In a town like Bessemer the thought process is something like “I don’t have a job, I’m not going to get one, I have no money, and this situation is not going to change.” And it’s not just you thinking this, you…

> you’ve just never had to deal with a real actual problem in your life

I don't follow how you made that assumption about OP of the comment

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#659

Post by [deleted] »

Archio wrote: post #650
u678u wrote: post #613

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You conveniently chose one of the wealthiest countries with the highest wages. Here is a more realistic look at monthly min wages across the region. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_...

>You conveniently chose one of the wealthiest countries Did you know that the United States is the wealthiest country in the world?

[deleted]

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#660

Post by colinmhayes »

nimbius wrote: post #543
aarongray wrote: post #127

Speaking as someone who lives adjacent to Bessemer but who does not work at Amazon, you need to understand that Bessemer is a dying city, a slum. These were the best paying jobs that many of these workers had had in their entire lives, it is no wonder that a majority of them decided not to bite the hand that was feeding them.

>a majority of them decided not to bite the hand that was feeding them. How did we as a nation go from the land of the free, a chicken in every pot and a car in every garage, to "beg for scraps or you will starve."

Black people might object to the US once being "land of the free." In fact, almost every unskilled worker might.
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