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Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

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Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#571

Post by claudiawerner »

musingsole wrote: post #463
jhbadger wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The one you can vote for leadership. Unions are imperfect, but they are democracies. Corporations on the other hand are feudal. You don't get to vote Bezos into power as a worker -- he's just the lord of the manor. Some nobles are good and some nobles are bad, but the serfs have no say.

> but they are democracies I really don't like democracy mixing with my business. It's the best, terrible system we have for when we have no other choice but to come to a mutual decision. But it really should be your last option.

I'm not sure why it should be my last option. There are several problems with autocratic leadership, one of which is that many times, the whims of the autocrat are fundamentally at odds with the good of the people he manages.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#572

Post by ptomato »

at-fates-hands wrote: post #539
fartcannon wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a tragic way to frame it. The USA (and all the world governments) need to take care of it's poor people better so they don't have to choose indentured servitude over poverty. Edit: Added the bit about all the world governments

I agree though. If we ever want to have a chance at closing the gap between low and middle classes, then we need a basic income for people making under a certain income. Taking away the hardships of deciding whether to put gas in your car or get groceries isn't a decision someone should have to make. An extra $500-1K per month for those people would make a world of difference and ease a lot of those everyday decision…

> we just had several trillion dollar stimulus bills that could've given every person in the country a million dollars

damn, didn't know covid killed 99% of the US population. rough.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#573

Post by alpaca128 »

dominotw wrote: post #530
fartcannon wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a tragic way to frame it. The USA (and all the world governments) need to take care of it's poor people better so they don't have to choose indentured servitude over poverty. Edit: Added the bit about all the world governments

> The USA (and all the world governments) need to take care of it's poor people better I believe The USA spends most on social welfare than any other country.

The amount of money spent doesn't mean anything. The US also pays insane amounts for their health system but the result is a system that's far more expensive than in other countries.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#574

Post by CraigJPerry »

beaconstudios wrote: post #515
ianbutler wrote: post #471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon Warehouse workers have medical coverage here too. So they're leaps and bounds ahead if you want to go ahead and say that. Of course the US healthcare system is broken so I know what you're getting at but I don't know that I want Amazon to pay their workers > $15 to subsidize a broken healthcare system for their workers I just want a functional healthcare system and for them to continue to make $15/hr.

the UK healthcare system isn't so great either. It's good enough for a safety net (mostly... the wait times are horrendous for non-emergency work, and I know a guy whose collarbone pokes out at a right angle because his doctor wouldn't fix the break), but if you have a chronic condition that isn't one of the handful of really common ones that all doctors know about (like IBS) then you're mostly on your own unless you…

>> because his doctor wouldn't fix the break

That sounds really weird. Why would a UK doctor not fix a break?

I’m guessing there was a medical reason rather than anything to do with the NHS or quality of care?

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#575

Post by missedthecue »

tablespoon wrote: post #413
gruez wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So let me get this straight: companies shouldn't be investing money into revitalizing impoverished areas?

> So let me get this straight: companies shouldn't be investing money into revitalizing impoverished areas? No, they should do so, just not be so exploitative about it (e.g. deliberately going into areas full of desperate people, for the reason of using that desperation to exert maximum control with minimum accountability).

The lowest paid person at Amazon is earning well over the median wage in Bessemer, Alabama.

Amazon could probably have no problem staffing the center at $11/hr there, but they're paying $18-$22 instead. How on earth can you define that as 'exploitation'? It's borderline charity, given the observable labor market equilibrium there.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#576

Post by extradesgo »

killjoywashere wrote: post #526
Justsignedup wrote: post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Europe there are a lot of social benefits that mitigate this. - Health care - Worker protections - Required time off - Sick time - Maternity leave etc. Here its $15. And you're on your fucking own. If you compare it to completely underdeveloped or dictatorial economies... Sure I guess its way better. But the US shouldn't be comparing comparing itself to that. Its like saying "This engineer is horrible, but he's no…

Does Amazon not provide health care to their workers? https://www.amazondelivers.jobs/about/benefits/

It offers a company plan that workers DO have to pay for and often choose not to because they cannot afford it.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#577

Post by Viliam1234 »

flavius29663 wrote: post #246
fartcannon wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a tragic way to frame it. The USA (and all the world governments) need to take care of it's poor people better so they don't have to choose indentured servitude over poverty. Edit: Added the bit about all the world governments

$15 an hour is more than you can get in almost any place in Europe or the world for unskilled labor, what are you talking about?

$15 an hour is what you get in Eastern Europe as a senior software developer.

But yes, it comes with affordable healthcare, free education, longer vacation, and maternity leave.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#578

Post by refenestrator »

snurfer wrote: post #507
ivvve wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You gotta be kidding me... this "Centre for Union Facts" is a 501(c) doesn't disclose it's donors. I'd bet dollars to donuts it's funded by businesses like Amazon and Walmart to do in their employees who want to collectively bargain. Probably a terribly biased source, for anyone who wants the real facts about unions.

So, you're implying the 11 union decertification petitions in the link I provided are fake or something?

11 union decertifications since 2009 is 1 per year. That's fine, great, people should decertify their union if it's corrupt or their needs change or whatever.

There's a separate point about 'unionfacts.com' with a bunch of anti-union stories on their website clearly being a propaganda op.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#579

Post by 01100011 »

Someone1234 wrote: post #132

HN is very consistently anti-union. My question is this: Where did you get information about unions? Because people keep mentioning their "bad reputation" and then start listing off a bunch of "facts" that read like they're bullets straight out of one of those anti-union videos during onboard at several major employers (Walmart, Target, Amazon, etc). So anti-union people exactly where does your information come from?…

Personal experience with unions. The unions at Boeing protect workers who do drugs and sleep on the job. The teamsters union in Boston prevented my small company from unloading a small amount of equipment from our truck ourselves(enforced with veiled threats). The longshoreman's union hands out jobs to well connected members and runs a racket.

I'm not saying all unions are bad. I think many industries might benefit from well run, transparent, regulated unions. But I have seen many examples where they are bad.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#580

Post by missedthecue »

Someone1234 wrote: post #132

HN is very consistently anti-union. My question is this: Where did you get information about unions? Because people keep mentioning their "bad reputation" and then start listing off a bunch of "facts" that read like they're bullets straight out of one of those anti-union videos during onboard at several major employers (Walmart, Target, Amazon, etc). So anti-union people exactly where does your information come from?…

I don't like them on the basis of principle. It is my belief that monopoly cartels are a net cost for society whether they deal in oil like OPEC or in labor like the UAW.
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