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Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

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Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#291

HN is very consistently anti-union. My question is this: Where did you get information about unions? Because people keep mentioning their "bad reputation" and then start listing off a bunch of "facts" that read like they're bullets straight out of one of those anti-union videos during onboard at several major employers (Walmart, Target, Amazon, etc). So anti-union people exactly where does your information come from?…

I know a number of people in a large teacher's union and the stories indicate the union is bad for both good teachers and students. I've personally seen many great teachers leave for private schools and other public systems. The union rewarded the incompetent and did little for rampant administrator abuse.

I was a public teacher for 9 years, 2 years in a union and 7 years in a right to work state. The union experience was better as an employee. I find it hard to believe great teachers would go to private schools in large numbers as a result of being in a union, private schools generally have lower pay, lower benefits, and lower standards. The one thing you gain going to a private school is freedom to do as you want, and no standardized testing. Anecdotally the people I know who went to private schools had someone else to support them financially and could choose the easiest route available.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#292
post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By that definition, companies are workplace monopolies. So are you against companies ? If you want to argue you can choose a different company, by the same token you can choose a different union by choosing a different company.

The economic term for is "monopsony," where a single buyer has disproportionate leverage. However, there isn't much evidence this occurs in most labor markets. People can and do often leave Amazon for another job. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopsony

I agree - I was just pointing out the absurdity / inconsistency of the argument by AlexTWithBeard.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a tragic way to frame it. The USA (and all the world governments) need to take care of it's poor people better so they don't have to choose indentured servitude over poverty. Edit: Added the bit about all the world governments

$15 an hour is more than you can get in almost any place in Europe or the world for unskilled labor, what are you talking about?

While that might be right,You are not taking into account that in Europe you get free healthcare & education.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$15 an hour is more than you can get in almost any place in Europe or the world for unskilled labor, what are you talking about?

Why are you comparing absolute dollar amounts? Is the cost of living the same every where?

Good point, it's even cheaper in Bessemer AL than basically anywhere in Europe, too

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#295

HN is very consistently anti-union. My question is this: Where did you get information about unions? Because people keep mentioning their "bad reputation" and then start listing off a bunch of "facts" that read like they're bullets straight out of one of those anti-union videos during onboard at several major employers (Walmart, Target, Amazon, etc). So anti-union people exactly where does your information come from?…

Show me a well run union in the USA where they successfully compete against union union workers, their industry isn't being shipped overseas, and workers can optionally participate without having wages garnished.

> Show me a well run union in the USA where they successfully compete against union union workers, their industry isn't being shipped overseas, and workers can optionally participate without having wages garnished.

Writers Guild of America East (for journalism), or the Authors Guild (novelists). You can become a journalist or a novelist without being a member. But both guilds have collective bargaining agreements with publishers.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#296

HN is very consistently anti-union. My question is this: Where did you get information about unions? Because people keep mentioning their "bad reputation" and then start listing off a bunch of "facts" that read like they're bullets straight out of one of those anti-union videos during onboard at several major employers (Walmart, Target, Amazon, etc). So anti-union people exactly where does your information come from?…

All my information on unions comes from people who have worked in unionized industries. My father in law is a former educator for example.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Show me a well run union in the USA where they successfully compete against union union workers, their industry isn't being shipped overseas, and workers can optionally participate without having wages garnished.

The screen actors guild

well played.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#298

HN is very consistently anti-union. My question is this: Where did you get information about unions? Because people keep mentioning their "bad reputation" and then start listing off a bunch of "facts" that read like they're bullets straight out of one of those anti-union videos during onboard at several major employers (Walmart, Target, Amazon, etc). So anti-union people exactly where does your information come from?…

Personally, it came from working for a massive union (government, not US) for many years. The downsides are real: hard to fire bad performers, your merits don't matter at all (the guy doing the bare minimum job description gets the same raises as you), wayyy too much focus on seniority (for promotions, vacation selection, etc), and overall just too many rules (for example, "unlimited vacation" works great with my cur…

> the downsides are real: hard to fire bad performers, your merits don't matter at all

Which work environments are merit based?

Which employers fire bad performers?

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#299

Speaking as someone who lives adjacent to Bessemer but who does not work at Amazon, you need to understand that Bessemer is a dying city, a slum. These were the best paying jobs that many of these workers had had in their entire lives, it is no wonder that a majority of them decided not to bite the hand that was feeding them.

> These were the best paying jobs that many of these workers had had in their entire lives

Until they get hurt on the job and Amazon fires them for failure to show up to work:

https://revealnews.org/article/how-amazon-hid-its-safety-cri...

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#300

Speaking as someone who lives adjacent to Bessemer but who does not work at Amazon, you need to understand that Bessemer is a dying city, a slum. These were the best paying jobs that many of these workers had had in their entire lives, it is no wonder that a majority of them decided not to bite the hand that was feeding them.

Amazon moving into these impovershed areas, becoming the majority employer, and having absolute influence over the local governance and electorate they themselves employ makes these places de facto a company town. Brilliant move, totally evil genius move, but brilliant.
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