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Monkey MindPong

neuralink.com

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Re: Monkey MindPong

#251

Post by bostonsre »

andbberger wrote: post #43
bostonsre wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. He is one of the first few through the breach for us with this tech.

Neuroscientists have been doing BCI with monkeys for years. Take a look at the work coming out of Byron Yu's and Steve Chase's labs at CMU for starters

I guess I just meant for this specific nerolink tech. He is definitely joined by a massive group of our distant cousins that have been involuntarily drafted into service for us. It's brutal, but so is life I guess. Hopefully this particular one doesn't mind it too much.

Re: Monkey MindPong

#252

Post by elil17 »

antattack wrote: post #225
trombonechamp wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is really basic. Here is a harder task from 2015 in monkeys with only 96 implanted electrodes (Utah array): https://youtu.be/lVFWIv5lupo?t=1673 Here is a video from 2014 of someone controlling a quadcopter with their mind with zero implanted electrodes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsraC04Mm8w

That's akin to saying that phones are basic since we already had desktops in the 1990s. Having 10x more electrodes that stay active for a long time, attached to self powered unit under skin with low latency wireless comm link is a major step forward.

It’s not that it’s nothing new - it’s obviously not identical to previous BMIs. But the thing people are reacting too is mostly the MindPong part (genuinely basic) and not the 10x electrode part (novel). It’s not like a paradigm shift, it’s a practice run for them to see if they can replicate previous successes with some changes to the tech.

Re: Monkey MindPong

#253

Post by bick_nyers »

lwansbrough wrote: post #83

The next step for Neuralink is write mode. No, not writing memories, but reprogramming motor function. If you can capture the signals of limb movement synapses for say, a paraplegic, you can read those signals and convert them into write signals in another part of the brain responsible for the actual motor function. Over time, that neuron pathway gets reinforced and could potentially teach a person how to walk again.…

Forgive my ignorance, but after writing to neurons to re-learn walking, will that render that particular Neuralink chip unless? Since the neuron structures surrounding that chip will be constructed for walking, you won't want to further disrupt/write to them. Then you would need to move the chip for any further use?

Edit: After reading another comment about the link being broken (hence the name Neuralink), this makes more sense now. Although, I still think that maybe you only get one usage out of one chip? I suppose the definition of "usage" is what is important. Presumably you won't need a chip per joint in a leg, and presumably one chip could control two legs? Or perhaps you get finer control with a chip per leg?

Re: Monkey MindPong

#254

Post by elil17 »

tomcam wrote: post #239
elil17 wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very much insanely expensive and only experimental. The man I met had a team of like five people needed just to set the thing up and calibrate it for his "brain waves" that day (they had to constantly fine tune the neural net he used to control it because the human brain is so plastic it would change every day and become unusable after a couple days) - plus more researchers running the experiments he was doing. The t…

Not trying to be funny here: lunch with those guys must’ve been absolutely fascinating. When I worked at Microsoft a couple of decades ago we all loved the job and we talked about work even on breaks. To see the staff of the place you’re describing just hanging out must have been extraordinary.

It was! The guy with the implant did his undergrad in nanotechnology and had pretty much became an expert in BMI stuff so they were a very cohesive team. They had a lot of funny stories too - like when they accidentally put the mind control monkeys in the cage with the cocaine addiction research monkeys and got to see how cocaine affected the brain interface (it didn’t).

Re: Monkey MindPong

#255

Post by elil17 »

elil17 wrote: post #150

For those who don’t know much about this field, this seems incredible. The reality is that this a tech demo that Neuralink is using to practice the basics. For other research groups in this field, this is tech from 20 years ago. The current state of the art is humans, mostly quadriplegic people, with chips which let them control robot arms with enough accuracy to pick up small delicate objects, play games, and type b…

Also! Forgot to put this in my comment but here is an interview (a couple years old) with the man I met talking about what he thinks of NeuraLink: https://www.technologyreview.com/2019/07/19/238809/nathan-co...

Re: Monkey MindPong

#256

Post by OrbitRock »

natosaichek wrote: post #119
neolog wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As they said in the video, the animal is doing the activity of it of it's own free will. Why don't they do it on humans then?

It's legally prohibited until a certain amount of animal testing has been performed. They're aiming to do the first human implants within a year.

2030 is going to be a dystopia

Re: Monkey MindPong

#257

Post by RobertoG »

vsareto wrote: post #250
RobertoG wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that you sacrifice something when you learn a new skill. The brain have a finite capacity and it just forget not used facts or skills, and the reason it's forgetting is because it's always learning. For instance, I'm learning German and I can feel how is messing with my English, specially with the spelling (English is not my first language).

But if it has a finite capacity, when does it fill completely and with what? I guess it's entirely possible that only kids who are growing up can learn to use the extra limb and adults won't be able to.

I don't think it never fills completely, it just empties the older entries to make place for the new ones.

Re: Monkey MindPong

#259

Post by overdrivetg »

jdsalaro wrote: post #174
elil17 wrote: post #150

For those who don’t know much about this field, this seems incredible. The reality is that this a tech demo that Neuralink is using to practice the basics. For other research groups in this field, this is tech from 20 years ago. The current state of the art is humans, mostly quadriplegic people, with chips which let them control robot arms with enough accuracy to pick up small delicate objects, play games, and type b…

I'm really interested in learning more about the process of putting existing research into practice as a process from an economics and innovation point of view. Does anyone have book, talks and other material you'd suggest looking at?

Sounds like you are asking about tech transfer capabilities?

As a starting point, here is a good intro article from WIRED that you might find useful:

https://www.wired.com/brandlab/2017/02/tech-transfer-lab-mai...

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