Can't believe they pulled this off. Incredible.
Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama
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Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama
#92Am I the only one who thinks $500/mo seems excessive for union dues? That's $60k/yr in dues for every 10 workers. Does a union really need a full time rep for every 10 or 20 members? If, perhaps, half of that goes to "strike insurance", that would mean $15k/member over 5 years. Which would be enough replace wages(at $15/hr) for six months. Do they really anticipate a six month strike every 5 years?
Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama
#93So, leaving aside why someone would or would not want to join a union, why is this a majority vote? If 49% of a workforce wants to unionize, why can't they?
They can, but members-only unions of the type most common in e.g. Europe have mostly disappeared in the US after the National Labour Relations Act 1935 made the current system possible.
On one hand I can see why it was attractive for unions to push for it, given how brutal anti-union efforts were in the US, but it seems to over time have had the effect of making unions focus on drives to win workplace by workplace and ignoring places they don't see a chance of winning a full-on unionisation vote.
Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama
#94Next round is already called: "BREAKING: @RWDSU says that Amazon illegally interfered in the #BAmazonUnion vote in Bessemer, and the union will be filing unfair labor practice charges with the NLRB." https://twitter.com/GrimKim/status/1380541382490738690
As is their right to do, but I’d think with such a massive drubbing they’ve taken here that they’d pack it up. More than a super majority of workers have rejected the unions attempt to infest their workplace with leftist, conflict politics.
The only question now is how Amazon punishes the organizers and reward the dissenters.
Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama
#95Earlier quoted context omitted.
Calling people stupid is a great way to get them to agree with you.
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> poverty-line workers
This vote wasn’t by poverty-line workers.
The poverty line in Alabama for a family of 4 is $26k. [0] So even if the worker in Bessemer is a single parent they are above the line. And if they are part of a two income household then they are above the median income of $51k. [1]
It’s interesting to me how people generalize incorrectly without considering the local situation of people impacted. Clearly incorrect statements like yours should be adjusted to have greater impact.
The whole country doesn’t have the income and expense characteristics of where I live.
[0] https://talkpoverty.org/state-year-report/alabama-2020-repor... [1] https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/AL/BZA210218
Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama
#96Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think reasons will vary, and I didn’t vote in this event. But in previous situations I’ve not supported unionization due to how it favored existing workers in ways I thought were unfair in that all layoffs were due to seniority not performance so older workers would be kept and younger workers laid off, no matter what. It also established more rigid pay levels that were better on average but not as good for high pe…
Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but your comment reads like you were operating in a much nicer career than these workers. If your job was good enough they gave you the opportunity to negotiate your pay, you're in a totally different social class than the subjects of this vote.
Maybe so, but this was indeed just their experience on voting not to unionize in their job. Maybe some of the workers in this particular case will share why they voted 'no'.
Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama
#97So, leaving aside why someone would or would not want to join a union, why is this a majority vote? If 49% of a workforce wants to unionize, why can't they?
Not a lawyer or organized labor person, but a favorable vote would turn the warehouse into a "union shop," where the union negotiates on behalf of everyone, member or not, with regard to wages and working conditions and collects dues from everyone, member or not. In my very limited experience, the union offers some benefit like vision coverage to encourage people to join.
Mostly correct, although Alabama is a “right to work” state which means you cannot be forced to join a union in order to take a job. You may be compelled to pay “agency fees” which are generally lower than full membership dues, though.
Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama
#98Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think reasons will vary, and I didn’t vote in this event. But in previous situations I’ve not supported unionization due to how it favored existing workers in ways I thought were unfair in that all layoffs were due to seniority not performance so older workers would be kept and younger workers laid off, no matter what. It also established more rigid pay levels that were better on average but not as good for high pe…
> it was good if you were in the union and employed, but was much harder to get work and join the union. This is my fundamental problem with unions—it helps the insiders and hurts everyone else. Amazon’s working condition are rough (and I really hope that changes), but there are plenty of jobs out there that are much worse and don’t pay nearly as well. They just get all the attention because of their size and impact.
That’s the fundamental problem with our culture generally.
The closer (figuratively speaking) to the big money and political power someone is the more comfortable they are.
And we all want to believe it’s a meritocracy. We’re just temporarily embarrassed millionaires.
Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama
#99That's pretty overwhelming too, 71% No. It would be interesting to hear from them why. I think we all have opinions (I certainly do). But I've never worked at amazon so my opinion is low value...
My guess is the messaging about dues. Lots of people focused on the short term hit to their paychecks. Most of the stories reference $500/month. That does seem high. Data I can find for other unions shows somewhere between 1 to 4 percent of gross pay as typical for union dues. Assuming $15/hour, 4 percent of gross pay would be $144/month. But, if $500/month is accurate, it's 13.8% of gross pay for $15/hour workers, a…
Is there anything preventing a competitor from funding union dues? Paying dues on half a million Amazon warehouse employees is not cost effective, but starting a snowball rolling in warehouse unionization may be possible. ~2k employees per warehouse x $100/month. Walmart could fund union dues for one warehouse for a year for about 1 million dollars.
Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama
#100Earlier quoted context omitted.
Most of the folks who vote aren't really the type to sit down and think long-term. $50/month in dues getting them +$2-3k more annually every two years? They won't do the math and see they'd make a net profit of whatever that annual income increase is minus $600. There was some great video floating around recently of a forklift operator or something who explained what his union dues got him and he was so informed and…
> " ...why you would vote against your own collective interest ... " > " ...Most of the folks who vote aren't really the type to sit down and think long-term... " Why do people call others dumb (and let's not kid ourselves, that's just what these phrases are a cultured, genteel way of saying) and then are surprised when said others don't vote for the causes they believe in? Don't they realize that casting aspersions…
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