Honestly, people need to get over HyperCard. Yes it was cool, but there’s no conspiracy behind its demise. It died because the World Wide Web accomplished basically the same thing, not initially as elegantly or powerfully, but open and universal (and today, very much more capable than HyperCard was). HyperCard usage declined and Apple gave up on it. It’s not complicated.
I think that TFA said it well, if brusquely: > And if you think that XCode, Python, Processing, or the shit soup of HTML/Javascript/CSS are any kind of substitute for HyperCard, then read this post again. The thing that made HyperCard great was that it wasn't very capable. Which made it approachable.
Why Hypercard had to die (2011)
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Re: Why Hypercard had to die (2011)
#102Hypercard was awesome. Sorry to spam, but I am working on a scripting language for the web based on HyperTalk, the scripting language from HyperCard, to try to recapture that magic: https://hyperscript.org/docs Fade & Remove
Re: Why Hypercard had to die (2011)
#103Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think that goes to both your point and mine; sure, the website does a little more in that it can be accessed from computers other than the one where it's running, but he also needed a whole book to do not much more than scratch the surface of what we call "web programming". That's not to say it isn't a significant accomplishment, and he should be proud of it!
I don’t know that it is only scratching the surface - the book gets you into an interactive site that is styled with Bootstrap, uses a database, uses web APIs, pushes to Heroku so it’s HA and scalable, etc. It’s pretty much all the major elements of web programming but using the more elegant ways of simplifying the experience. I’m not denying the complexity just saying that there are still many (particularly in Pytho…
I get the sense the book tries to surf the reader over the top of most of that ocean, and that's reasonable enough, but the ocean is still there. I wouldn't consider it all that comparable to Hypercard, which in this metaphor I guess is more like the town pool back when those still existed? People who are ready for the deep end can dive into it, and people who feel like paddling around in the shallow end is more their speed can safely do that too.
Re: Why Hypercard had to die (2011)
#104Re: Why Hypercard had to die (2011)
#105(Yes, there were post-1987 updates, none of which added fundamental critical features like color support. Which was introduced to the Mac lineup with the Mac II, also in 1987.)
Re: Why Hypercard had to die (2011)
#106Re: Why Hypercard had to die (2011)
#107I liked seeing the examples of creating a calculator in HyperCard, but I don’t think that Steve Jobs killed it because it was some existential threat to Apple’s profits. Apple gives away its software for free when you buy a Mac, and to my knowledge they don’t make a large fraction of money on selling software licenses. It’s also completely possible to run your own code today on a Mac, so we would have to believe that…
Mid-90s marketing: "Think Different" (fine, but many people don't like to think of themselves as "weird") and "It just works"
late 2000s, 2010s marketing: Straight up luxury branding. Aspirational, like a BMW, Mercedes, or a high end appliance.
Re: Why Hypercard had to die (2011)
#108Honestly, people need to get over HyperCard. Yes it was cool, but there’s no conspiracy behind its demise. It died because the World Wide Web accomplished basically the same thing, not initially as elegantly or powerfully, but open and universal (and today, very much more capable than HyperCard was). HyperCard usage declined and Apple gave up on it. It’s not complicated.
> World Wide Web accomplished basically the same thing, This is incorrect and I'm convinced that you agree after you think it little more. HyperCard was tool for non-programmers. Like spreadsheet. Web is not alternative to HyperCard. You have to learn web programming to do anything. We should not get over it, but create replacement or recreate it.
Don’t mistake the explosion of JavaScript land for being the same thing as the World Wide Web. Static websites are as easy to build now as they were in 1995, and in some ways easier.
Re: Why Hypercard had to die (2011)
#109I don't buy this argument. There has been nothing stopping other companies from releasing HyperCard-style tools for the Mac. And many have. But they have (as far as I'm aware) not dominated nor flourished particularly well. What may have seemed amazing to a few people -- including me; I loved HyperCard as a kid! -- was possibly simply not the most valuable use of time, especially for a company trying to dig itself ou…
For example, the musical instrument store where I worked in during high school used Hypercard to keep all their customer records and maintain an inventory of all their equipment. This was all based on custom "stacks" which were in turn lightly modified from included example stacks to add their specific business logic. (For example: the stacks would calculate rental fees and late rental charges instantly based on the store's arcane formulae. They would produce reports telling us who was late on rent and who was most likely to get really late. The stacks were constantly under development, which usually meant: we need a feature, let's pop the hood and add three lines of code.)
At the end of the day HC was just a single-machine database with an amazing programmable custom interface builder. This would have been obvious to me if I'd been older and understood these ideas, but I didn't realize how useful the combination was until many years later when I started building web apps. It occurred to me that what I was doing was basically making a much crummier version of Hypercard (albeit with a shared Internet-hosted database, which Hypercard did not have back then) at something like 100x the programming effort. I remember seeing that MS Access had some kind of interface builder, but it was a pile of hot garbage compared to Hypercard.
TL;DR if Hypercard had managed to stay the course and improve itself for that use-case I think Macs would have been vastly more useful to (at least small) businesses. Instead Macs went through a dark period where the nearly got killed by Windows, and were basically only saved by Jobs' attention to design plus Microsoft's reluctant benevolence.
Re: Why Hypercard had to die (2011)
#110Earlier quoted context omitted.
Those accessible programming environments tended to exhibit exponentially worsening performance and maintainability characteristics as the complexity of the system being built with them grew. This would be have been fine, so long as these systems remained relatively simple, and were rebuilt in more heavyweight but scalable languages once they reached a certain level of complexity. But that isn't what happened. Instea…
Is this really the case, or does stuff just continue flowing into the tools that are still accessible to users? I have seen an incredible number of businesses that run off of either Excel spreadsheets, or glomped together masses of Salesforce customizations. I'm not convinced that this is an improvement in matters. I also think that there's just a lot of custom software that doesn't get built.