Initial M1 support merged into Linux SoC tree • Hacker News Board

Re: Initial M1 support merged into Linux SoC tree

#241

Post by FearlessNebula » Fri, Apr 09, 2021, 1:12 PM UTC

crossroadsguy wrote: post #120

533474 wrote: post #70

Why do we still buy macs? Apple can pull the plug anytime. Kudos yo the huge undertaking but I personally think we wouldn't need this type of gargatuan effort if we just refused to buy macs without linux support. Why support such a closed system?, enlighten me...

Because if you ignore the high prices those are really good machines. Unlike anything else out there. Durable as well. I wish there were sleek, metal body lightweight laptops with Linux (w/o Windows hence minus some cost) which just worked out of the box (one that didn’t require hunting around forums to have basic functionalities), but there isn’t. And no I don’t mean that one or two exotic OEM/model. But a general a…

M1 is very price competative with similarly priced Windows machines

Re: Initial M1 support merged into Linux SoC tree

#242

Post by hyakosm » Fri, Apr 09, 2021, 1:12 PM UTC

hobonate wrote: post #231

tgv wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've written this before, but it's not going to happen without a large amount of apps, that people actually want and can use. And that's not going to happen unless there's all the necessary tooling, especially for UI. mac/iOS and Windows have great support for building user-oriented applications. And then it still needs a centralized way to monetize the development work. And to get all that, you need a ton of paying…

There's already GTK and Qt. What more do you want? > And then it still needs a centralized way to monetize the development work. I disagree: once you put money into the equation, the quality of packages will go down as programmers try to shake as much money out of the users. Compare programs like MATLAB vs GNU Octave or Photoshop vs GIMP for example. > And to get all that, you need a ton of paying users, not a bunch…

> There's already GTK and Qt. What more do you want?

There's GTK2, GTK3, vanilla Qt, KDE-Qt with additional tooling... The problem in Linux is the lack of integration between these tools. The fragmentation of the GNU/Linux ecosystem forbids the possibility of an unified API like HaikuOS kits. (https://www.haiku-os.org/docs/api/)

Re: Initial M1 support merged into Linux SoC tree

#243

Post by tyingq » Fri, Apr 09, 2021, 1:14 PM UTC

sillysaurusx wrote: post #125

marcan_42 wrote: post #117

Hi HN! I wrote an article about this initial support series and what it took to make things work properly on this machine: https://asahilinux.org/2021/03/progress-report-january-febru... It still applies to what got merged; the past month was spent on clean-ups, fixes, and review feedback, but there are no major changes to the approach. This initial merge was quite complex as it has to touch a number of subsystems an…

(Side note: I'm happy to see that shilling your patreon is becoming a socially accepted norm. Best of luck with your work!) One thing I was surprised by: LuaJIT doesn't compile on an M1. LuaJIT 2.1.0 technically compiles, but it core dumps whenever you have a syntax error, which makes it quite a bit less useful. A reason for this might be due to the lack of __threadlocal support in M1's (apparently, or so says clang)…

>lack of __threadlocal support in M1

An informative post about this from the Zig folks: http://www.jakubkonka.com/2021/01/21/llvm-tls-apple-silicon....

Re: Initial M1 support merged into Linux SoC tree

#244

Post by matwood » Fri, Apr 09, 2021, 1:21 PM UTC

ginko wrote: post #229

matwood wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same. You have to click the window before typing something, but scroll does follow the mouse.

How about button clicks?

No, but I understand the rationale. A button click is an input much like typing. Plus, when I want to give a window focus, I'd rather not look for a non-button to click.

But, having clicks work on hover instead of after focus is fine, and simply has a different set of trade offs.

Re: Initial M1 support merged into Linux SoC tree

#245

Post by hesk » Fri, Apr 09, 2021, 1:28 PM UTC

ginko wrote: post #80

fxtentacle wrote: post #42

I sincerely hope that one day, Linux GUI land will receive similar amounts of work as the kernel. While it's great that we can boot it on pretty much every device out there, I would much prefer if it was a viable Windows alternative on a few devices instead. Just yesterday, I plugged an external screen into my Ubuntu laptop. And then I had to duck-duck for like an hour to figure out how to make the fonts large enough…

Anecdotal I know, but I very recently got a macbook air after years of practically exclusively using Linux and the opinionated user interface drives me crazy. Here's a few pain points: - Scroll direction can only be set globally so either touchpad or mouse scrolling feels awkward for me - You need an extra click on another window before you can interact with it - No focus-follows-mouse (there used to be 3rd party plu…

Since you're already using brew, I am running emacs-plus@27 on Big Sur on an MacBook Air M1 and it works perfectly.

  brew tap d12frosted/emacs-plus
  brew install emacs-plus@27

Edit: code

Re: Initial M1 support merged into Linux SoC tree

#246

Post by hu3 » Fri, Apr 09, 2021, 1:30 PM UTC

rvz wrote: post #237

rvz wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last time I checked, the Android Emulator running on Apple Silicon still has issues and isn't functionally as good as running it on an Intel Mac. There is no point in getting the M1 Macbook (which is last year's model) since they will either announce a M1X or even a M2 Macbook this year which will most certainly be more performant and optimised than the last generation. One of the several reasons why I stayed away fr…

Downvoters: So this is not true? Time to cut through the hype. From [0] (From Preview) Known issues: Webview doesn't work No sound No device skins Video codecs not working 32 bit ARM apps won't work Graphical glitches in some Vulkan apps Popup on startup about not being able to find the ADB path (ADB will still notice the emulator if you have it installed though) When building, it may be faster to start then cancel t…

I was considering getting an M1 this week to poke around but seeing how things are still broken for my usecase... nevermind.

Re: Initial M1 support merged into Linux SoC tree

#247

Post by _Understated_ » Fri, Apr 09, 2021, 1:33 PM UTC

matwood wrote: post #215

_Understated_ wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here are my thoughts on Linux... I used Ubuntu on my sole/main machine for a month up until recently: i9 10900K, 32GB, 1TB NVMe SSD, GTX1080, MSI Z-490-A Pro, 3 x screens. In my day job I'm a .NET developer so I created a Windows 10 VM for VS 2019 and allocated 4 cores and 12GB RAM. I used VMWare Workstation 16. It was smooth as hell. I developed PHP/Laravel/Wordpress stuff in Linux using PHP Storm and VSCode. Docker…

> In Linux' defense, VMware workstation 16 running Windows 10 is smoother than a Windows 10 VM on VMware workstation on Windows. Reminded me about a time years ago I had to do some c# work in Windows 7. At the time, I found the best Windows laptop experience was running it in a VM on a MBP.

Haha, that's crazy!

I will say that running natively on Windows is still faster but the VM of Windows 10 in VMWare Workstation on Linux is noticeably faster and smoother than running that same Windows 10 VM on VMWare Workstation on Windows 10... it just defies logic!

It's not like it's a Type 1 hypervisor in Linux and Type 2 in Windows (well, I assume it isn't!).

Re: Initial M1 support merged into Linux SoC tree

#248

Post by KptMarchewa » Fri, Apr 09, 2021, 1:44 PM UTC

comboy wrote: post #136

peteretep wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like the pattern is that when you start to dig into people talking about their great experience with Linux on a laptop, you end up eventually getting them to admit that there are a lot of annoyances they’ve just resigned to living with

Some of which they are not even aware of unless they have used other systems for some time. "I don't even have any problems with bluetooth, audio or a secondary display" Why would you mention these? Why would anybody expect to have problems with that? ;) FWIW I use linux on laptop for dev, it's great for my specific use case (terminals flying around), I would not recommend it to my family. i3wm FTW

>Why would anybody expect to have problems with that? ;)

Because you can expect issues with this for example on mac?

https://www.reddit.com/r/macbookpro/comments/ekh86o/macbook_...

Re: Initial M1 support merged into Linux SoC tree

#249

Post by droopyEyelids » Fri, Apr 09, 2021, 1:54 PM UTC

ginko wrote: post #229

matwood wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same. You have to click the window before typing something, but scroll does follow the mouse.

How about button clicks?

you have to hold 'option' to click on a button in a window without focus

Re: Initial M1 support merged into Linux SoC tree

#250

Post by KptMarchewa » Fri, Apr 09, 2021, 1:56 PM UTC

midrus wrote: post #119

strange_things wrote: post #20

This is very anecdotal but every single laptop I have bought in the last 10 years (4) worked perfectly out-of-the box with either Linux Mint or Ubuntu (which are the same on the inside). I only vaguely remember once I had to change some conf file for my trackpad to work after a dist update but that was it. Not sure why everyone in this thread is so hesitant about Linux on a laptop? It literally just works (tm) for me…

Not my experience at all. Thinkpads are the one with the best support, but there are always problems with high DPI screens, plugging external monitors, suspending some times works some times doesn't, battery drains really quick, the trackpad just barely works (gestures, hardly work). I feel the only people that say Linux works great on a laptop is because A) it manages to boot it and 2) Never used a MacBook Pro or si…

>Thinkpads are the one with the best support, but there are always problems with high DPI screens

Had no problems plugging my 4k LG CX with at 1440p@120Hz mode, which is kinda more than I managed to do with Mac.

>Never used a MacBook Pro or similar so they don't know what something working well means

Nope. Used three different macs over course of 4 years due to fact that three employers provided me them. I hated those machines, especially constant overheating issues when using external monitors. Maybe M1 fixed that, but they still won't offer it with 16' ones.

Also hated the UI with burning passion. Only thing that made it usable is the fact that maximizing window switches the window to a different "workspace". If only those were numbered, persistently assigned to monitors and windows could be configured to only spawn on particular workspaces it would be pretty nice though.

One thing I really liked though is retina display on two later ones.