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Initial M1 support merged into Linux SoC tree

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Re: Initial M1 support merged into Linux SoC tree

#201

I sincerely hope that one day, Linux GUI land will receive similar amounts of work as the kernel. While it's great that we can boot it on pretty much every device out there, I would much prefer if it was a viable Windows alternative on a few devices instead. Just yesterday, I plugged an external screen into my Ubuntu laptop. And then I had to duck-duck for like an hour to figure out how to make the fonts large enough…

[deleted]

Re: Initial M1 support merged into Linux SoC tree

#202

I sincerely hope that one day, Linux GUI land will receive similar amounts of work as the kernel. While it's great that we can boot it on pretty much every device out there, I would much prefer if it was a viable Windows alternative on a few devices instead. Just yesterday, I plugged an external screen into my Ubuntu laptop. And then I had to duck-duck for like an hour to figure out how to make the fonts large enough…

I've written this before, but it's not going to happen without a large amount of apps, that people actually want and can use. And that's not going to happen unless there's all the necessary tooling, especially for UI. mac/iOS and Windows have great support for building user-oriented applications. And then it still needs a centralized way to monetize the development work. And to get all that, you need a ton of paying users, not a bunch of freeloading tinkerers. It's simply not going to happen any time soon.

Re: Initial M1 support merged into Linux SoC tree

#203

This is very anecdotal but every single laptop I have bought in the last 10 years (4) worked perfectly out-of-the box with either Linux Mint or Ubuntu (which are the same on the inside). I only vaguely remember once I had to change some conf file for my trackpad to work after a dist update but that was it. Not sure why everyone in this thread is so hesitant about Linux on a laptop? It literally just works (tm) for me…

I feel like the pattern is that when you start to dig into people talking about their great experience with Linux on a laptop, you end up eventually getting them to admit that there are a lot of annoyances they’ve just resigned to living with

So we don't exclude them to make a point, that's also true for Mac and PC laptops.

My XPS 15 wifi won't wake automatically after sleep on Windows. Wifi works perfectly on Linux, but there are things that don't work with the touchscreen in tablet mode on Fedora that I've been told work on Ubuntu.

My T2 MacBooks are little nightmares sometimes, fans screaming during video meetings and crashing and draining battery instead of sleeping, and I still haven't seen a compelling reason to give up my 2015 13". If the second gen M-series solves the weirder problems, maybe.

Re: Initial M1 support merged into Linux SoC tree

#204
post #119

This is very anecdotal but every single laptop I have bought in the last 10 years (4) worked perfectly out-of-the box with either Linux Mint or Ubuntu (which are the same on the inside). I only vaguely remember once I had to change some conf file for my trackpad to work after a dist update but that was it. Not sure why everyone in this thread is so hesitant about Linux on a laptop? It literally just works (tm) for me…

Not my experience at all. Thinkpads are the one with the best support, but there are always problems with high DPI screens, plugging external monitors, suspending some times works some times doesn't, battery drains really quick, the trackpad just barely works (gestures, hardly work). I feel the only people that say Linux works great on a laptop is because A) it manages to boot it and 2) Never used a MacBook Pro or si…

I've used Linux mostly on IBM/Lenovo ThinkPads and Dell Latitudes. Overall I've had great success. Drivers work, suspend and hibernation work, plugging in monitors just works, wifi works, and battery life is decent enough.

My current benchmark for laptop integration is a Dell XPS 13 2-in-1 that my previous employer bought me with Windows 10. It had a high-DPI screen and there were so many bugs it wasn't even funny. The touchpad was horrible to use. Connecting and disconnecting external monitors was a fun adventure not unlike playing roulette to see if the big presentation you're about to make will ever show on the projector.

Overall, I'd say my Windows and Linux experiences on laptops has been about equal in terms of frustration and annoyance. I haven't had a Mac since like 2007 when I got rid of my G4 PowerBook which was probably the most polished laptop I've ever used in terms of hardware/software just working-ness.

Windows 10 is a mess. It makes Linux on a laptop much easier to bear :)

Re: Initial M1 support merged into Linux SoC tree

#205

Hi HN! I wrote an article about this initial support series and what it took to make things work properly on this machine: https://asahilinux.org/2021/03/progress-report-january-febru... It still applies to what got merged; the past month was spent on clean-ups, fixes, and review feedback, but there are no major changes to the approach. This initial merge was quite complex as it has to touch a number of subsystems an…

Impressive work everyone!

Re: Initial M1 support merged into Linux SoC tree

#206
post #202

I sincerely hope that one day, Linux GUI land will receive similar amounts of work as the kernel. While it's great that we can boot it on pretty much every device out there, I would much prefer if it was a viable Windows alternative on a few devices instead. Just yesterday, I plugged an external screen into my Ubuntu laptop. And then I had to duck-duck for like an hour to figure out how to make the fonts large enough…

I've written this before, but it's not going to happen without a large amount of apps, that people actually want and can use. And that's not going to happen unless there's all the necessary tooling, especially for UI. mac/iOS and Windows have great support for building user-oriented applications. And then it still needs a centralized way to monetize the development work. And to get all that, you need a ton of paying…

So nice

Re: Initial M1 support merged into Linux SoC tree

#207

I sincerely hope that one day, Linux GUI land will receive similar amounts of work as the kernel. While it's great that we can boot it on pretty much every device out there, I would much prefer if it was a viable Windows alternative on a few devices instead. Just yesterday, I plugged an external screen into my Ubuntu laptop. And then I had to duck-duck for like an hour to figure out how to make the fonts large enough…

I really think we're getting there. Wayland is a much saner, more consistent experience than X11 ever was. I use Fedora and with Gnome and Mutter you get a solid experience. Not everyone likes Gnome but I find it to be generally pretty good and productive to work in. There are some gaps in Wayland - screen sharing being the obvious one. But these gaps are in the process of being closed (pipewire being part of the pic…

Nvidia really needs to get on Wayland already. I tried a few months ago to run KDE on Wayland+Nvidia it was literally unusable. I could not put a panel down without bugs. I'm running mixed DPI with the Nvidia driver and it's just easiest to make seperate X screens despite all the downsides that brings :/.

I'm going to be sad that a lot of little WMs are probably never going to make the jump. I'm not sure Wayland is ever going to get that many.

Re: Initial M1 support merged into Linux SoC tree

#208
post #188
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every single laptop my company bought me in the last 10 years (3+) had kernel/driver issues, especially with Ubuntu, since the kernel version was usually lower than that from other distros, like Fedora. This includes mostly graphics driver issues (either simply Nvidia, or hybrids, or some exotic protocols such as DisplayLink), but also touchpad, power/suspend issues (e.g. wake-up failure), lack of fingerprint or smar…

>about 1-2 years after the new laptop model has been released, almost everything works fine It depends on the category of device and what feature you want. I recently got an X1 Tablet (the 2-in-1 version of the X1 Carbon), and it barely works on Linux; there's a veritable zoo of inscrutable bugs that render the device very annoying to use (for example, Plasma's night mode disables when you re-attach the keyboard). It…

This matches my experience with a 2-in-1 Thinkpad. Obscure bugs (WiFi driver periodically crashing when Thunderbolt is connected) still there after 2 years now.

I think the best bet is going with as much of a run off the mill device as possible. In my experience a separate tablet works much better than a 2-in-1 compromise anyway. When your sole input device is a touchscreen, UX is (unsurprisingly) massively better with a touch-first UI compared to a mouse-first UI.

Re: Initial M1 support merged into Linux SoC tree

#209
post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because if you ignore the high prices those are really good machines. Unlike anything else out there. Durable as well. I wish there were sleek, metal body lightweight laptops with Linux (w/o Windows hence minus some cost) which just worked out of the box (one that didn’t require hunting around forums to have basic functionalities), but there isn’t. And no I don’t mean that one or two exotic OEM/model. But a general a…

You should ignore the price now. Windows laptops that compete with the M1 Mac have similar price or even more expensive.

Damn you are so right. In fact, I did realize it after writing the comment, but then I also factored in repairability and upgrade factors and repair cost as well.

Re: Initial M1 support merged into Linux SoC tree

#210
post #40
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Old Macbooks make good linux laptops. This hasn't really been the case for a while now.

A 2015 mbp works pretty well, are there problems with the newer ones?

Yes. Tons. For a while you couldn't even install Linux on the internal SSD of T2 chip models. Keyboards and Trackpads don't work out of the box. Suspend and sound issues. Touch bar problems.
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