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Initial M1 support merged into Linux SoC tree

git.kernel.org

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Re: Initial M1 support merged into Linux SoC tree

#181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it'll still be a virtual machine? It'll just mean that there could be an ARM native virtual machine rather than one emulating x86.

The secret to the lightweight nature of Docker is that it just uses various namespacing, cgroup etc functionality provided by Linux with no virtualized OS kernel or hw virtualization mechanisms involved. (Yep you need ARM Docker images when running on ARM of course)

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Re: Initial M1 support merged into Linux SoC tree

#182

This is very anecdotal but every single laptop I have bought in the last 10 years (4) worked perfectly out-of-the box with either Linux Mint or Ubuntu (which are the same on the inside). I only vaguely remember once I had to change some conf file for my trackpad to work after a dist update but that was it. Not sure why everyone in this thread is so hesitant about Linux on a laptop? It literally just works (tm) for me…

I feel like the pattern is that when you start to dig into people talking about their great experience with Linux on a laptop, you end up eventually getting them to admit that there are a lot of annoyances they’ve just resigned to living with

As opposed to the constant annoyances with windows, and similarly things I don't like in Mac?

Re: Initial M1 support merged into Linux SoC tree

#183
post #122

Why does this merge also delete all sorts of (seemingly) unrelated files? Like the 'rocket' and 'Cyclades' drivers in this case.

Lots of the ARM-related changes are cleanups/modernization of code that the Apple support uses, e.g. https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/soc/soc.git/...

Cyclades removal was about dead, unmaintained code: https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/soc/soc.git/...

This is a 60-commit branch, which had to decouple a lot of different bits of ARM-platform code. Specifically, they use a totally different boot method, have a weird and special power-management system, and other stuff I don't know. See this article: https://asahilinux.org/2021/03/progress-report-january-febru...

Re: Initial M1 support merged into Linux SoC tree

#184

I say this as a long-time PC user; MacBook laptop hardware is unrivaled in the PC space (trackpad, screen and keyboard - not pure price/performance). Having any distro running Gnome 40 with full gesture support would be seriously compelling for daily driving.

Yep, I've been looking for a linux laptop for a while that is actually compelling compared to my mac book pro. It seems just about everything is a downgrade in terms of shitty trackpads, lower resolution screens, memory, etc. Linux UI is not a problem for me; I can deal with that. The hardware is a problem though. Here's what I want: - Something that is faster than the last Apple laptop I loved which, I bought in 201…

I believe Dell XPS checks very many (if not all) of those options. I haven’t used one, but was seriously considering it + Linux for my last upgrade.

Re: Initial M1 support merged into Linux SoC tree

#185
post #6

Somewhat related: I'm super curious if M1's advantages would melt away if Intel simply fabbed their current designs on TSMC's 5nm process, to have a level playing field between Intel and Apple's chip designers.

The M1 has greater instruction-level parallelism. That is what allows the M1 to run at a lower clock that Intel, but still run faster.

And that parallelism in large part comes from them having a genuinely enormous transistor budget. ARM is easier to be wide on, but the way x86 cores are implemented now makes the decoding a coefficient of overhead rather than an absolute game ender.

Re: Initial M1 support merged into Linux SoC tree

#186
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Craig Federighi: > As for Windows running natively on the machine, "that's really up to Microsoft," he said. "We have the core technologies for them to do that, to run their ARM version of Windows, which in turn of course supports x86 user mode applications. But that's a decision Microsoft has to make, to bring to license that technology for users to run on these Macs. But the Macs are certainly very capable of it."…

It's a pretty disingenuous way to blame Microsoft. Afterall, there are two ways that Windows 10 on Mac M1 could have occurred: Microsoft could relax the licensing so that end users could buy/install Windows 10 onto the Mac M1, or Apple could approach Microsoft like any other OEMs and license/preinstall Windows 10. We know the latter isn't going happen.

I don’t see what’s disingenuous about it? Apple are basically saying that they haven’t put in any technical barriers to stop Microsoft from porting Windows to the M1, and that Microsoft are free to do so if they want.

Re: Initial M1 support merged into Linux SoC tree

#187

Hi HN! I wrote an article about this initial support series and what it took to make things work properly on this machine: https://asahilinux.org/2021/03/progress-report-january-febru... It still applies to what got merged; the past month was spent on clean-ups, fixes, and review feedback, but there are no major changes to the approach. This initial merge was quite complex as it has to touch a number of subsystems an…

(Side note: I'm happy to see that shilling your patreon is becoming a socially accepted norm. Best of luck with your work!) One thing I was surprised by: LuaJIT doesn't compile on an M1. LuaJIT 2.1.0 technically compiles, but it core dumps whenever you have a syntax error, which makes it quite a bit less useful. A reason for this might be due to the lack of __threadlocal support in M1's (apparently, or so says clang)…

LuaJIT is extremely impressive engineering, but also a giant pile of hacks and shortcuts. I'm not surprised.

Re: Initial M1 support merged into Linux SoC tree

#188
post #35

This is very anecdotal but every single laptop I have bought in the last 10 years (4) worked perfectly out-of-the box with either Linux Mint or Ubuntu (which are the same on the inside). I only vaguely remember once I had to change some conf file for my trackpad to work after a dist update but that was it. Not sure why everyone in this thread is so hesitant about Linux on a laptop? It literally just works (tm) for me…

Every single laptop my company bought me in the last 10 years (3+) had kernel/driver issues, especially with Ubuntu, since the kernel version was usually lower than that from other distros, like Fedora. This includes mostly graphics driver issues (either simply Nvidia, or hybrids, or some exotic protocols such as DisplayLink), but also touchpad, power/suspend issues (e.g. wake-up failure), lack of fingerprint or smar…

>about 1-2 years after the new laptop model has been released, almost everything works fine

It depends on the category of device and what feature you want. I recently got an X1 Tablet (the 2-in-1 version of the X1 Carbon), and it barely works on Linux; there's a veritable zoo of inscrutable bugs that render the device very annoying to use (for example, Plasma's night mode disables when you re-attach the keyboard). It's clear that the FOSS ecosystem as a whole places little priority on touchscreeny things, either on the device end or the software end; the overlap between people hackish enough to fix weird bugs and people who find 2-in-1 tablets compelling enough to hack on is evidently smaller than with normal laptops.

Re: Initial M1 support merged into Linux SoC tree

#189
post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like the pattern is that when you start to dig into people talking about their great experience with Linux on a laptop, you end up eventually getting them to admit that there are a lot of annoyances they’ve just resigned to living with

As opposed to the constant annoyances with windows, and similarly things I don't like in Mac?

As opposed to basic things (like display drivers, hibernation, bluetooth, fingerprint scanners, etc.) working fine on both.

Every OS will add annoyances and bugs on top. But it's on Linux where people usually have to fight/configure/trial-and-error to get basic things working more often than Windows and macOS.

And this is not some Linux hater notion. It has been complained about by people like ESR, Linus, and Miguel Icaza. If the original "bazaar" proponent, the founder of the OS, and the original creator of the still major desktop environment have issues with ease-of-use and just-works, who are we to say otherwise?

Re: Initial M1 support merged into Linux SoC tree

#190
post #77

This is very anecdotal but every single laptop I have bought in the last 10 years (4) worked perfectly out-of-the box with either Linux Mint or Ubuntu (which are the same on the inside). I only vaguely remember once I had to change some conf file for my trackpad to work after a dist update but that was it. Not sure why everyone in this thread is so hesitant about Linux on a laptop? It literally just works (tm) for me…

I was investigating recently options which laptop I can buy to be able to use Linux without any issues. I've checked Lenovo Legion 5 with AMD processor. Looks like good machine for a price, but touchpad is not gonna work out of the box on the latest stable Ubuntu. Kernel upgrade is needed (or PopOs distro that already has needed patch). For me kernel update does not sound as something big, at least I know that someth…

If you want to use Linux on laptops, the best option is Fedora. Of all the mainstream dependable Linux distros it has the most up to date Kernel and other bits (like Gnome). This means that its support for hardware is usually the best. On Lenovo laptops with Intel graphics everything works perfectly out of the box with no issues (all the way down to fingerprint readers etc.).

I also find it to be stable and generally good distro, but of course that's more subjective.

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