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You Don't Need a GUI

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Re: You Don't Need a GUI

#201

Post by Annatar »

aidenn0 wrote: post #167
homarp wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

or man -k "disk space"

disk space: nothing appropriate.

As root run

  catman -w
just once to (re)build the index. Results are guaranteed to be of high quality only on a real UNIX, preferrably one of open source Solaris (illumos) distributions, and likely FreeBSD.

Re: You Don't Need a GUI

#202

Post by Annatar »

jcrawfordor wrote: post #153
Animats wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The systems which did that, TOPS-20 and VMS, lost out to Unix, which didn't.

By nearly the same token, though, one could say that Windows NT, which is for most practical purposes a descendant of VMS, implemented these ideas... and UNIX lost out to it. I think that some version of this dichotomy has existed at nearly every point of computer history where technology allowed it, and that is surprisingly far back!

How did UNIX lose out to NT, when market forces coerced Microsoft to include a shoddy copycat version of UNIX named GNU/Linux inside of NT? That is almost the ultimate punishment for Dave "Gettabyte" Cutler, the father of NT and a notorious UNIX hater.

Re: You Don't Need a GUI

#203

Post by vbsteven »

karlicoss wrote: post #11

GUI is better for discoverability of the most common scenarios (I can right-click to see everything that can be done with the file, including some third party programs). But it's bad for composing programs and interoperability, often it's impossible or very hard to automate (how many people are doing UI testing? there is a good reason it's not many -- it completely sucks) TUI/console is very good for interoperability…

Does something like `apropos` in emacs exist for the shell? I've always seen that as a command to find a function or feature based on some keywords.

Re: You Don't Need a GUI

#204

Post by michaelgrafl »

Not everyone is spending most of their time in a terminal already.

I'm not going to context switch to a terminal and move my hand off my mouse just to be able to type a command that I could have issued with a couple of mouse clicks in the window I'm already in.

If I'm already on the command line, yeah. I'll probably do more stuff in the command line. I just hate to switch input modalities to feel like I'm being more efficient doing stuff that makes up so little of my actual work (coming up with ideas and solving problems).

Re: You Don't Need a GUI

#205

Post by silveri »

ronyeh wrote: post #174
karlicoss wrote: post #11

GUI is better for discoverability of the most common scenarios (I can right-click to see everything that can be done with the file, including some third party programs). But it's bad for composing programs and interoperability, often it's impossible or very hard to automate (how many people are doing UI testing? there is a good reason it's not many -- it completely sucks) TUI/console is very good for interoperability…

I like your point about discoverability. What if there was such a thing as a right click menu for command line programs? Like if I type ffmpeg or youtube-dl with no args, it lists the 3 most common ways to use it, and maybe allows an interactive CLI menu where you can build up the correct argument list by answering a few questions. I would love the most useful commands to look like: ffmpeg --resizeVideoTo input.mp4 5…

That's basically what cheat.sh does. It's an editable wiki that contains common use cases (cheat sheets) and can be called directly from the command-line, e.g.:

    curl cheat.sh/ffmpeg
    curl cheat.sh/youtube-dl
    curl cheat.sh/cd
    curl cheat.sh/find
It gives quite a bit more than 3 use cases, but you could do:

    curl -s cheat.sh/ffmpeg | head
For more details you can go to the site in a browser or use:

    curl cheat.sh
    curl cheat.sh/:help

Re: You Don't Need a GUI

#206

Post by dagss »

gruez wrote: post #5

Most the things in this list are things that you technically don't need a GUI for, but a GUI is so much better that doing it in command line is pointless. For instance, you could do all those file operations in the terminal, but chances are you're already browsing files using a GUI file manager so opening a terminal to do those things is pointless. Terminal is great if you want to do something complicated that a GUI…

I am the opposite, haven't used a GUI file manager in...15 years? I am most certainly not "already in it".

(Ok, with the exception of wanting to look at a bunch of images in thumbnail mode. Then I launch a GUI file manager.)

The shell is where I "am" and launching a GUI seems more cumbersome than typing the command.

In fact reading this post made me realize that using the terminal for file operations is not as common as I thought.

Re: You Don't Need a GUI

#207

Post by aulin »

Vaslo wrote: post #115

The people on HN don’t need a GUI. Most of our parents, spouses, and bosses have zero interest in the command line.

the people that used to be on HN... now every day I come here I feel older, but I stay because it amazes how dumb the new "hacker" generations can be

Re: You Don't Need a GUI

#208

Post by bullen »

This is why my 3D MMO will only have command line GUI for everything. GUI is a waste of the developers and the customers time.

I'll put the command line interface in the chat bubble above the players head.

/join to register and /sign to login will be the first commands.

Re: You Don't Need a GUI

#209

Post by michaelmrose »

michaelgrafl wrote: post #204

Not everyone is spending most of their time in a terminal already. I'm not going to context switch to a terminal and move my hand off my mouse just to be able to type a command that I could have issued with a couple of mouse clicks in the window I'm already in. If I'm already on the command line, yeah. I'll probably do more stuff in the command line. I just hate to switch input modalities to feel like I'm being more…

Your comment about task switching is fair but how much time do you spend in the file manager window?

You are apt to pay that cost either way and with a lot of tasks it's as easy to have both hands on the keyboard.

Re: You Don't Need a GUI

#210

Post by michaelmrose »

dekerta wrote: post #33
gruez wrote: post #5

Most the things in this list are things that you technically don't need a GUI for, but a GUI is so much better that doing it in command line is pointless. For instance, you could do all those file operations in the terminal, but chances are you're already browsing files using a GUI file manager so opening a terminal to do those things is pointless. Terminal is great if you want to do something complicated that a GUI…

No kidding. I laughed at this part: "STOP DOUBLE CLICKING ON A FILE " "Instead type '$ xdg-open file'" Yeah, because that's way faster and more convenient than double clicking on an icon. This one is great too: Don't open the file explorer! Instead you should type "find . -print | sed -e 's;[^/]*/;|____;g;s;____|; |;g'" Seriously?

I have that shortened to o instead of xdg-open and jump to recent directory with zoxide an autojump alternative invoked with z followed by a few characters

So z [4 chars] enter o [2 chars] tab to complete enter is actually pretty quick.

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