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Apache Mesos to be moved to Attic

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Re: Apache Mesos to be moved to Attic

#131

Post by ultimex »

jqcoffey wrote: post #109
jeffbee wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there examples of high-utilization, large-scale Mesos deployments? Mesos didn't even gain over-commit until 2015, so it seems like it was generally behind the state of the art.

There must be some folks from Criteo lurking here. I'm an ex-Criteo'er and if memory serves we had something on the order of 10K nodes running mesos/marathon. We did all kinds of silly things to it, like running very CPU intensive .NET/Core apps. I dug this post up showing a service performing an internal auction of up to 530M advertising campaigns/sec on 88K CPUs in Mesos: https://medium.com/criteo-engineering/migra…

Silly like wrapme.sh? https://imgflip.com/i/54trj2

Only a guy harassed and fired for developing in go and showing k8s capabilities ;)

Re: Apache Mesos to be moved to Attic

#132

Post by zbentley »

ForHackernews wrote: post #86
orf wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That only works to access the service from other pods inside k8s, it doesn't help you make that service accessible to the outside world. Tell me how you'd run Dovecot on k8s? Quite the opposite. I’d re-read the docs[1]. Specifically this page[2]. If you’re on AWS you’d probably wire this up with a NLB and a bit of terraform if you’re allergic to YAML. Seems like a 5 minute job assuming you have Dovecot correctly co…

From the docs you linked: > ClusterIP: Exposes the Service on a cluster-internal IP. Choosing this value makes the Service only reachable from within the cluster. This is the default ServiceType. Internal only. > NodePort: Exposes the Service on each Node's IP at a static port (the NodePort). A ClusterIP Service, to which the NodePort Service routes, is automatically created. You'll be able to contact the NodePort Se…

> Nobody uses NodePort to expose external services directly, and I think you know that

I do. It provides a convenient way to integrate our non-k8s load balancers (TCP haproxy tier with a lot of customization) with services on kube. This is good for reusability and predictability while we slowly migrate services from our prior deployment targets to k8s.

I get the impression that this is not uncommon.

Re: Apache Mesos to be moved to Attic

#133

Post by rantwasp »

marcinzm wrote: post #36
rantwasp wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

just because something is packaged does not mean it’s usable. YMMV but this is how security horror stories start. Someone ran a container they had no idea where it came from, happily used a helm chart. Most of the times it’s not even malicious - it’s outdated software because “it just works”

In my experience all the common helm charts and docker images are regularly updated. If you don't update your installation of them then you also wouldn't update a docker compose or LXD.

that’s a big statement. what constitutes “common” helm charts?

Re: Apache Mesos to be moved to Attic

#135

Post by smarterclayton »

justicezyx wrote: post #98
jaaron wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Kubernetes was supposed to be scheduler for Mesos and Google invested in it. > I never heard of such plan. Oh, there was a plan: https://github.com/kubernetes-retired/kube-mesos-framework But it wasn't really in anyone's business model interests, even if it may have made sense for customers and the community.

Sure, this type of early idea happens to any high-profile project. I meant to say that that I never heard any significant decision maker had that plan on K8s' future.

As an early participant, while someone might have had this plan, I certainly did not hear this ever stated by anyone. Having the ability to run on Mesos was discussed as interesting and in the spirit of community but the work we did treated Mesos as a source of learning but not as a serious thing to integrate. I’m sure others considered it, but as justicezyx says it was an inclusive idea but at best something a few people cared about.

Re: Apache Mesos to be moved to Attic

#136

Post by smarterclayton »

pm90 wrote: post #123
benjaminwootton wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True. As the major corporate sponsor though they didn’t give it the best chance. I ran one of the first Docker partners and saw first hand how both Mesos and Docker Inc had considerable mindset and interest from large enterprises for a year or so before Kubernetes matured. They both spectacularly failed to deliver through arrogance and bad execution.

I remember visiting SFBA in 2014 or so, a friend worked in PayPal said they used mesos, kubernetes was a baby project with a lot of hype. It sure seemed mesos had won back then, and the fact that kubernetes caught up, surpassed and then succeeded so wildly would have never crossed my mind.

I worked with tech companies and some banks in the early days of Kubernetes who were deep in Mesos and many of them felt the same way. It’s really hard to see this as it’s happening.

Kubernetes is absolutely “worse is better” when it comes to scheduling. But scheduling isn’t the problem most people needed solved. Kubernetes standardized deployment patterns of multiple apps well for most people. Everything else was a nice to have (scheduling, scale, ease of initial setup, etc).

Re: Apache Mesos to be moved to Attic

#137

Post by davidopp__ »

madhadron wrote: post #88
dharmab wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most famously, Siri (used to?) run on a very large scale Mesos deployment (10000s of nodes, much higher than Kubernetes can scale to). Unfortunately the original article is lost, but here's a summary: https://daringfireball.net/linked/2015/04/29/siri-apache-mes...

To be fair, Kubernetes right now only schedules relatively small clusters. But it turns out that the majority of the world is not Facebook or Google and only needs relatively small clusters.

> To be fair, Kubernetes right now only schedules relatively small clusters.

This is not really true:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25907312

https://cloud.google.com/blog/products/containers-kubernetes...

https://www.infoq.com/presentations/alibaba-kubernetes/

Re: Apache Mesos to be moved to Attic

#138

Post by dharmab »

davidopp__ wrote: post #137
madhadron wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, Kubernetes right now only schedules relatively small clusters. But it turns out that the majority of the world is not Facebook or Google and only needs relatively small clusters.

> To be fair, Kubernetes right now only schedules relatively small clusters. This is not really true: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25907312 https://cloud.google.com/blog/products/containers-kubernetes... https://www.infoq.com/presentations/alibaba-kubernetes/

Even those numbers (10k to 15k nodes and 100k containers) are smaller than what a great Mesos framework was capable of.

Of course, this mattered to only a very small number of organizations.

Re: Apache Mesos to be moved to Attic

#139

Post by madhadron »

davidopp__ wrote: post #137
madhadron wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, Kubernetes right now only schedules relatively small clusters. But it turns out that the majority of the world is not Facebook or Google and only needs relatively small clusters.

> To be fair, Kubernetes right now only schedules relatively small clusters. This is not really true: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25907312 https://cloud.google.com/blog/products/containers-kubernetes... https://www.infoq.com/presentations/alibaba-kubernetes/

Yes, 10k to 15k machines is a relatively small cluster in my world.
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