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Particle mystery: physicists confirm the muon is more magnetic than predicted

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Re: Particle mystery: physicists confirm the muon is more magnetic than predicted

#291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cartoon History of the Universe is probably the best "nonfiction" comic ever made. (it's not inaccurate but it's kind of psychedelic and retells more than one religious founding text as if it actually happened)

I’m a huge fan of the Cartoon History, but I think I’d have to give the prize to Maus for best nonfiction comics. Second runner up would probably be Understanding Comics.

The problem with Understanding Comics is that most comic readers are sensible enough to know that American style comics are bad, so they all read manga instead. Most of the books about that aren’t translated though there is Even a Monkey Can Draw Manga.

Re: Particle mystery: physicists confirm the muon is more magnetic than predicted

#292
post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how many potheads did you have in your quantum mechanics class?

The joke I have heard is that Physics students are either shut-ins or party animals, either way they're both microdosing something or other...

Don’t forget pure mathematicians. Some of us have appearently dabbled in harder microdoses, looking at Erdös specifically.

Re: Particle mystery: physicists confirm the muon is more magnetic than predicted

#293
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People aren't "just fine" about dark energy. It is an entire field of study in physics/astronomy. A problem there is that we are quite stuck; some future experiments might tell us something (if it has changed over time for instance), but theoretically there aren't any stand out answers or ones that can see experimental confirmation soon.

Please read up on Dark Energy. It is quite fascinating that people do not make the connection. Dark Energy was invented because the theory does predict not enough energy. Meaning observation requires there to be WAAY more energy than what the theory predicts! This vacuum catastrophe is completely different! The theory does predict WAAAAY, I mean WAAAAAAAAYYYYYY more energy than what was found in observations.

Perhaps I should have mentioned I am (was) a theoretical physicist and have worked a little on dark energy. But perhaps you meant the comment to others in general.

Re: Particle mystery: physicists confirm the muon is more magnetic than predicted

#294
post #290
post #285

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I appreciate the absolutist position. However, everybody agrees on what code _must do_. If you need to solve a (massive) system of linear equations (as happens often in LQCD) you can then take your alleged solution and plug it in and check. A variety of those sorts of things prevent you from doing anything too wrong. If you screw up gauge invariance, for example, you will get 0. There are agreed-upon small examples.…

I think this clarifies a misunderstanding I had from your original comment. It sounds like the "secret sauce" for this collaboration includes a set of numerical libraries. They would get relatively little funding, few publications ("glory", as you say), and at best be reduced to a citation (if people remember to cite their libraries) if all they did was improve the backbone of lattice QCD with better software. So ins…

> It sounds like the "secret sauce" for this collaboration includes a set of numerical libraries.

Indeed. There are really only a limited set of (physics) choices when making these libraries. As long as the discretization you pick goes to QCD in the continuum limit, you can make whatever choices you want. Some choices lead to faster convergence, or easier numerics, or better symmetry, or whatever---at that point it's a cost/benefit analysis. But if your discretization ('lattice action') goes is in the QCD universality class ('has the right continuum limit') you're guaranteed to get the right answer as long as you can extrapolate to the continuum.

> It's a bit sad that there's so little glory in writing better numerical libraries.

Agreed, but physics departments (by and large) award tenure for doing physics, not for doing computer science. It's hard to get departments to say "yes, your expertise in optimizing GPU code is enough to get you on the tenure track".

> It's a common problem across the sciences. [...] I can believe they'd be reluctant to share.

The larger community does center around common codes. The biggest players are

USQCD http://usqcd-software.github.io/ quda http://lattice.github.io/quda/ grid https://github.com/paboyle/Grid/

but there are others, and there are private codes (like BMW's) too.

As part of the SciDAC program and now exascale initiative the DOE does fund a few software-focused national lab jobs. But not many.

Re: Particle mystery: physicists confirm the muon is more magnetic than predicted

#295
post #289
post #286

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I really want to stress: it's excellent science, and that's why they hold their code tightly. You can say 'no, a true scientist publishes everything' but---says you. As someone in the field let me assure you: everything, of course, is more complicated than you make it out to be. I understand the absolutist position. But in a world of finite and ever-shrinking resources (grants, positions, etc.) it's fair to try to pu…

I'm not an absolutist, and don't want to come off as one. I'm just not in lattice QCD :) What degree of data sharing is considered normal there? Across experimental physics it varies a lot: astronomers are often required by the funding agencies to make the data public, whereas particle physics experiments have traditionally shared very little (although pressure from funding agencies has started to change this too). G…

> Do we wait around for someone else to cook up a batch of similar secret sauce to confirm the result?

It took you folks 20 years to redo the experiment. Independent lattice calculations have already been underway for some time; I would expect (but I won't promise, not working on the topic myself and not having any particular insider information) results on the year-or-two timescale.

> Will they release their gauge configurations after some embargo period?

BMW probably will not do this. In their recent Nature paper they do say that upon request they'll give you a CPU code BUT when they provide a nerfed CPU code that produces the same numbers, rather than their performant production code. ... annoying.

> Or should we believe them just because they are top-notch?

Well, maybe? Why do you believe the theory initiative's determination of the vacuum polarization or the hadronic light-by-light? Some how it's more sensible to back out those things by fitting experimental data than by doing a direct QCD calculation? There's no free parameters in a QCD calculation, but fitting... well, give me a fifth and I can wiggle the elephant's trunk.

> I've seen top-notch groups like this fall before, so it seems quite reasonable if experiments aren't citing them now.

I think it's wrong not to hedge the experimental results and it's wrong not to cite them, but I understand why experimentalists wouldn't take their result as final either.

Re: Particle mystery: physicists confirm the muon is more magnetic than predicted

#296
Very interesting indeed. But if one read again all depends the idea of quantum field theory or "like all charged particle it interacts with its own field to create virtual particles" etc. It is hard to understand for old guy learning basic physics long time ago.

Re: Particle mystery: physicists confirm the muon is more magnetic than predicted

#297
post #210

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I used to read the Cartoon Guide to... books as a kid: https://www.amazon.com/Cartoon-Guide-Physics/dp/0062731009 . They were great.

Today no starch press has a series of Manga Guide to ... which are pretty great. https://nostarch.com/catalog/manga

The Japanese originals have more topics.

Re: Particle mystery: physicists confirm the muon is more magnetic than predicted

#298
post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the theoretical prediction can't be calculated until the experiment is done that motivates the choices of what and what not to approximate, is it really a prediction?

If the theoretical prediction can't be calculated until the experiment is done that motivates the choices of what and what not to approximate, is it really a prediction? Let me make that more meta. If a theory is unable to predict a particular key value, is it still a theory? This is not a hypothetical question. The theory being tested here is the Standard Model. The Standard Model in principle is entirely symmetric…

This is unequivocally the best explanation of this I've ever heard, including from university professors. You are very good at this.

Re: Particle mystery: physicists confirm the muon is more magnetic than predicted

#299
post #246

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That’s a good (and profound) question, not deserving of downvotes. It turns out that the simplified paradigmatic “scientific method” is a very bad caricature of what actually happens on the cutting edge when we’re pushing the boundaries of what we understand (not just theory, but also experimental design). Even on the theoretical front, the principles might be well-understood, but making predictions requires accurate…

Philosopher Larry Laudan had a tripartite view. He proposed IIRC convergent processes between better (and more complete) measurements, better (and more complete) models and theory, and better instrumentation. Thus, one could also include a fourth term perhaps: improving technology.

Thanks for the pointer. That sounds vaguely like a view I've been toying with. I'll be interested to see if his version of it is more rigorous than mine.

Re: Particle mystery: physicists confirm the muon is more magnetic than predicted

#300
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lagrangian mechanics is equivalent to Newtonian mechanics, but doesn't involve force https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lagrangian_mechanics The idea of replacing a 'gravitational force' with spacetime curvature gave us General Relativity; extending this same idea to electromagnetism gives us Kaluza-Klein theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaluza%E2%80%93Klein_theory The current state of the art is Quantum Field Theory…

I still need someone to ELI5 to me how space curvature model explains the attraction between two bodies that have a delta-v of 0.

This was done as ELIPhD by Raychaudhuri.

Essentially for any given spacetime we can calculate out geodesics for any freely-falling object; it's just the path these objects follow through spacetime unless otherwise disturbed. Here we're interested in such objects that couple only to gravitation. These "test objects" do not radiate at all, not even when brought into contact with each other, and they don't absorb radiation. They don't attract electromagnetically, or feel electromagnetic attraction, and they don't feel such repulsion either. They also don't feel the weak or strong interactions. So they're always in free-fall -- always in geodesic motion -- because they can't "land" on anything.

We take one further step into fiction and prevent these test objects from generating curvature themselves. You can fill flat spacetime with them, and spacetime will stay flat. This is completely unphysical, but it's a handy property for exploring General Relativity.

If we put such an object into flat spacetime, we can use it to define a set of spacetime-filling extended Cartesian coordinates, where we add time to the Cartesian x, y, and z labels. We set things up so that the object is always at x=0, y=0, z=0, but can be found at t 0. The units are totally arbitrary. You can use SI units of seconds and metres, or seconds and light-seconds, or microseconds and furlongs: for our purposes it doesn't matter.

We can introduce another such object offset a bit, so that it is found initially at t=0,x=200,y=0,z=0. Again, the units are unimportant, it only matters that the second object is not at the same place as the first. This object is set up to always be at y=0,z=0.

In perfectly flat spacetime, these two objects, for t=anything, will be found at x=0 and x=200 respectively, and always at y=0, z=0.

They do not converge, ever, not in the past or in the future. They also do not diverge. The choice of coordinates doesn't matter any more than the choice of units; we could change the picture to keep the second object always at x=200, and the first will move from x=0. Or we can let them both wander back and forth along x, but with constant separation. But let's stick with our first choice of holding the first particle at the spatial origin at all times.

Now, what happens if we give the first object a little bit of stress-energy (you can think of that as mass in this setup)?

The geodesics generated now are not those of flat spacetime, but rather much closer to those of Schwarzschild. We have perturbed flat spacetime with the nonzero mass.

The first object, if we keep it always at x=0,y=0,z=0 now causes the second object to be on a new geodesic that is x != 200 at different times. Depending on the relationship between the "central mass" at the origin and distance x=200, the geodesic evolution of x for all t for the second object might look like an elliptical, circular, or hyperbolic trajectory [1].

If on the other hand we give both objects the same mass, we end up calculating out geodesics that focus. There will be at least one time t > 0 where the test objects will occupy the same point in spacetime, t=?,x=?,y=0,z=0. (This is called a "caustic").

Raychauduhri showed that caustics are highly generic[2]: you need electromagnetic repulsion (which means a global charge imbalance, which is not a feature of our universe); strong gravitational radiation (which is not a feature of our universe except perhaps in the extremely early universe); or a metric expansion of space (which is a feature of our universe, and leads to large volumes in which geodesics diverge, avoiding caustics, and small volumes in which geodesics converge such that caustics are only avoided by non-gravitational interactions).

This is the General Relativistic picture of masses attracting each other: objects follow geodesics unless shoved off them (by e.g. electromagnetic interaction), or until they "land" on something; in most physically plausible spacetimes there are generically intersecting geodesics and most things find themselves on one; and so close approaches, collisions, mergers, and so forth are practically inevitable.

Lastly, consider an https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accelerometer . A calibrated one in free-fall anywhere should always report "0"; dropping the same out of an airplane should show a slight upwards acceleration imparted by collisions with the air, and then a big upwards one upon contact with the surface. These collisions with air molecules and water or ground molecules shove the falling accelerometer off its geodesic. An accelerometer resting on the ground or on the airplane will show an acceleration somewhere around 10 m/s^2 in SI units: it is being pushed off free-fall by interactions.

Two accelerometers freely-falling in flat spacetime will eventually collide with one another thanks to the focusing theorem. Only as they collide will the accelerometers show nonzero.

Finally, you can even experiment with this yourself: install https://phyphox.org/ on a modern smartphone and rest it on the floor, take it with you into an elevator, jump up and down, or throw it a long way (try not to break it, and try to avoid it rotating much while in the air) and you'll see that when in flight it registers a near-zero acceleration, but a substantial acceleration when in your hand as you wind up and throw, and a substantial acceleration when it lands. While in the air your phone is in practically-geodesic-motion.

It's this property of free-fall -- the absence of acceleration, even if one is orbiting or falling straight towards some massive object -- that is at the root of Einstein's gravitation, and which distinguishes it from Newton's gravity. It is formalized into the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equivalence_principle .

Although your thrown phone and the Earth are interacting gravitationally, neither the phone nor the planet feels a "pull" towards one another during the phone's flight, or during a parachutist's drop. The geodesics generated around the freely-falling Earth and (effectively) freely-falling phone just lead to greater radial motion by the phone.

- --

Definitely not ELI5:

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbolic_trajectory

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raychaudhuri_equation#Focusing...

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