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Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

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Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#951

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your 2nd source links to Hasan saying "America deserved 9/11". Since not everyone will click on your sources, I just want to point out what you consider "political speech" for others to see.

> Your 2nd source links to Hasan saying "America deserved 9/11". Maybe it did.

Flamebait like this will get you banned on HN. We don't care what you're flaming for or against; we care about HN threads not being set on fire, or sent into deeper circles of hell.

No more of this, please.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#952
post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your 2nd source links to Hasan saying "America deserved 9/11". Maybe it did.

It's hilarious that in a thread full of people hating on companies for deplatforming people for their opinions, you are getting massively downvoted for voicing your own opinion. Goes to show that no one really wants "free speech".

Please don't perpetuate tedious, nasty flamewars on HN. It's not what this site is for.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#953
post #936

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People who don't want free speech are usually the ones complaining about how other people exercise their free speech in ways that counter their own message. Like voting on comments, for example. That's free speech too. That said, HN is definitely not anything even remotely resembling a free speech platform, in concept or execution. It's the recruitment platform for Y Combinator, and all decisions are made here to opt…

You certainly misunderstand the purpose of HN and now it makes your earlier comments much more clear .

Please don't cross into personal attack.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#954
post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hilarious that in a thread full of people hating on companies for deplatforming people for their opinions, you are getting massively downvoted for voicing your own opinion. Goes to show that no one really wants "free speech".

People who don't want free speech are usually the ones complaining about how other people exercise their free speech in ways that counter their own message. Like voting on comments, for example. That's free speech too. That said, HN is definitely not anything even remotely resembling a free speech platform, in concept or execution. It's the recruitment platform for Y Combinator, and all decisions are made here to opt…

That's not what HN is optimized for. I can tell you that for sure because it's my job to (attempt to) optimize it and I've posted about this many times over many years:

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor...

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so...

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#955
post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hilarious that in a thread full of people hating on companies for deplatforming people for their opinions, you are getting massively downvoted for voicing your own opinion. Goes to show that no one really wants "free speech".

> Goes to show that no one really wants "free speech". Especially not on HN, where the SV/SJW group think prevail. Argument I often get is "you are free to voice your opinions and we are free to massively downvote you", well, same happened with 9/11, the US elites have been cunts to the whole world (including to "The People" and still are), they are totally free to be, by then 9/11 came as a big slap in Wall Street A…

We've asked you many times to stop using HN for ideological battle. Since you've ignored those requests and done even more of it, I've banned this account. If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. They're here: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.

As for "SJW group think", that sort of generalization is entirely determined by your own priors. The opposite side has different priors and sees HN in exactly the opposite way. Both views are not only imaginary, they're actually the same phenomenon with just one bit flipped.

Lots of examples here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26148870. Countless other explanations at https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu....

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#956
post #942

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I think this issue is more nuanced than you (and many other people every time these threads comes up) make it out to be, which is why I brought up this point. Saying "certain scale duh" is just as an empty idea as "just build your own lol". Can you explicitly tell me how you would codify that scale in law? And whatever you make the cap, what then is the incentive for a website to allow more users over the cap? > Of c…

Sure, let's start with a million and go from there. Why would they want to go bigger? Money, that's why. If someone was repeating that in a public space, we probably wouldn't, but if he had a series of megaphones screaming that at everyone, ala spammimg everyone's convos, many societies have laws against just that. Much of law is already using a "reasonable man". Standard, so why not this one?

> Why would they want to go bigger? Money, that's why.

But a big reason behind all of this censorship on private platforms is that companies are trying to appease advertisers and customers downstream. It's already about money, because we're talking about private enterprise. Coca-cola doesn't want an ad appearing next to a comment promoting Nazism on your all-speech-must-be-allowed platform. It seems to me that forcing sites to have any and all content once they reach a certain size would do the opposite of generating revenue.

> If someone was repeating that in a public space, we probably wouldn't, but if he had a series of megaphones screaming that at everyone, ala spammimg everyone's convos, many societies have laws against just that.

This may or may not be legal in the US. But even if it is, I have a hard time imagining how we would define spam on the internet in a way that won't get subjectively abused and bring us halfway back to where we are now anyway.

How about this approach: force companies at the level of ISPs, domain name registrars, payment processors, and maybe cloud providers, to allow any legal content and not censor. That seems like infrastructure that's too hard to build from the ground up. Anything built on top of that, like a website, is free to act how it acts today.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#957

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you link to any of that? I lived nearby and it felt more like a street festival the times I went by. I know this stuff happened, but I genuinely never saw what it was like.

It seems most of the video was taken down like this one - https://www.facebook.com/163203180698293/posts/1165808300437... Some things are still available though - https://www.bitchute.com/video/1Jr0ILcX9hY/ Social media seems to be doing a pretty good job of trying to pretend these things didn't exist.

Yeah, pretty much. I remember a Twitch streamer who'd broadcast from there even abused the DMCA to take down a video that Seattle's police department posted to try and identify the CHAZ-affiliated people who were caught on stream shooting and killing a black teenager. As far as I know Twitch didn't have any problem with that, because "Black Lives Matter" doesn't actually mean black lives matter...

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#958

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whataboutism can sometimes be a valid declaration of hypocrisy.

But there's no hypocrisy. Nobody is saying McCarthy was right or endorsing his tactics. Edit: It appears I may have misinterpreted the initial comments sarcasm as a "if McCarthy could do it then it's fair game" rather than a criticism of modern outrage mob tactics.

Plenty of people in this thread have effectively endorsed McCarthyism. You don't have to look far - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26730485

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#959
post #941
post #852

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Gotcha, I do appreciate you taking the time to reply seriously. My issue with your definition is that means the only thing you'll deem an insurrection is a revolution (basically a successful insurrection). I think the BLM protests (funny these are always deemed riots by certain folk, reminds me of how the military uses terminology to dehumanize, such as the word target) escalated to insurrection in one scenario that…

The BLM protests did at times turn to riots. I don't say that to dehumanize anyone but there was violence and destruction. Mainly because the cause was highjacked by groups that love to break out into violence, such as Antifa. If we can't call out such groups and recognize the damage they do, what happens to the next protest?

I'm not sure what you mean, where am I unwilling to call out a group?

The comment said BLM riots, which did not happen. In your own words, you are close to realizing why I say it's dehumanizing and meant to impart a meaning that isn't true.

You said: "Mainly because the cause was highjacked by groups that love to break out into violence..."

In other words, you actually do realize they aren't BLM riots. They were BLM protests, that were highjacked by groups outside BLM to result in riots.

So stop conflating riots at a BLM protest with BLM riots. They are not the same thing, and by doing that you attempt to de-legitimize the BLM movement.

I'm honesty not sure why you think I'm not willing to call a riot a riot. I'm just not willing to attribute the riot to BLM, since it doesn't align with their values or leadership whatsoever.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#960

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, that's another way to fix the problem then: break Twitch up into 100 baby Twitches, and don't let anyone have ownership/stake/control of more than one of them. If all 100 decide to ban someone, they probably deserve to be banned, and if they don't, then the person can keep streaming on one that didn't.

No because the same social and economic pressures may apply to all of them. That's exactly what used to happen to black tenants when all of the "100 baby landlords" decided to ban them. It doesn't mean they probably deserved to be banned, it's that there was a systemic problem that couldn't be fixed simply by having competition. We already see this with politically unpopular people being banned from all popular socia…

I think it's hilarious that you're using the suffering of black people to give weight to your fears about what's happening the sort of people who are in fact fond of or indifferent to the suffering of black people.

Back here in reality, a poster child for "politically unpopular people being banned" was Milo Yiannopoulous, who was banned for leading a wave of anti-black abuse: https://www.vox.com/2016/7/20/12226070/milo-yiannopoulus-twi...

One could argue that Milo is the one who started the shift we've seen over the last 5 years in social media moderation decisions. He still has a platform, of course. There are approximately infinite platforms, and some of them are happy enough to host open racists. So we aren't at the "100 baby landlords decided to ban" stage yet. As you say, he's just been booted off the popular platforms. Because it turns out a lot of people are no longer interested in supporting open racists.

And it seems like that's where things will stay: Users and companies have unimpinged freedom of association. Racists, etc, have the freedom to build sites that support racists, which are mostly ignored by everybody else. This seems like a fine outcome to me. If it doesn't to you, maybe think about why.

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