Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site • Hacker News Board

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#891

Post by esyir » Thu, Apr 08, 2021, 6:18 AM UTC

thephyber wrote: post #882

esyir wrote: post #766

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strong disagree here. Network effects are king here, and social media is a natural mono/oligopoly. Overcoming this requires the construction of a superior and more addictive product, and the incentives just aren't there for such platforms. The smart move is to hit them with the hammer of regulation here. They can either be the small exclusive club with tight control over their members and their behavior, or the mass…

> Overcoming this requires the construction of a superior and more addictive product, and the incentives just aren't there for such platforms. Nope. You can have a smaller, simpler substitute if you have comparative advantage in some other niche. DuckDuckGo is making a decent showing against Google, despite arriving on the scene almost 2 decades later. A handful of righty / unPC social media properties (Gab, Parler,…

Didn't said righty social media properties literally have to face existential threats like getting multiple hosting providers drop them?

Moreover, this is only something that's fine if you accept ceding control of the vast majority of communication to private control. I. E, we now get cyberpunk thoughtcrime dystopia.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#892

Post by remarkEon » Thu, Apr 08, 2021, 6:20 AM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #844

kodah wrote: post #828

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is easier and cheaper today to to connect with others and express yourself without the need for private companies than it has ever been in the history of mankind. I'm glad you feel secure enough to say that out loud, and maybe from some perspective you are technically correct. But the comparison you gave about email is easily refutable. Most email traffic is controlled by large providers, large providers which c…

>Most email traffic is controlled by large providers, large providers which can denylist your mail servers for a myriad of vague reasoning which take forever to scrub yourself from. Most people choose to use email controlled by large providers. I choose to pay a company for my email needs. Others have that choice too. They can also choose not to use the large providers. It's open and free as in speech (excluding ille…

>I don't see how much more open and free (as in speech) it can get without taking away someone else's ability to do what they want with their computer.

Do you understand why some of us are viewing this problem through an anti-trust or public utility lens now?

In other words, "I don't understand how much more open and free (as in electricity) it can get without taking away someone else's ability to do what they want with their power plant."

It's really, really unfortunate that this debate was triggered for what are at their base partisan political reasons. Because this is a debate we should have had with cooler heads, about what these services actually represent for human society and how government should interact with this technology. Instead, everyone is drawing a line in the sand based on their politics (not saying you are doing this, but others clearly are).

And look, yeah, I get it. "Electricity" is not "speech". But when you need electricity and you need computers to transmit speech in the modern era ... well I guess I just see it as six of one and a half dozen of the other.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#893

Post by ewindal » Thu, Apr 08, 2021, 6:33 AM UTC

weswpg wrote: post #869

imgabe wrote: post #840

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm, I wonder if the justice system has any reason for why some kinds of evidence aren’t admissible? Nah, they probably just want to let a few criminals off the hook for funsies.

Your sarcasm aside, there are obviously plenty of reasons why there are failings of the justice system and most people agree that the government isn't the sole arbiter of social accountability.

Good thing there are multi-billion private companies out there that can pick up the slack and punish the real criminals.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#894

Post by viraptor » Thu, Apr 08, 2021, 6:33 AM UTC

DarkByte8 wrote: post #881

viraptor wrote: post #617

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the behavior on their platform is not disruptive to it, then what precisely are they defending their users _from_? From being surrounded by Adams. Either you act in cases like that, or you become known as "that place that likes to invite Adam (and others)". And it's completely up to the host which side they want to be on. Twitch chose to end the invitation. > Invite someone on the most wanted list. That's not ev…

The problem is who judges the Adams and decide that they are assholes. People are worried that the judge will not be fair and it will be biased in favor of some ideology.

Of course at some point it will not be fair. No system is and people make mistakes. The question is - is it going to be less fair / more biased than not applying the same policy.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#895

Post by ewindal » Thu, Apr 08, 2021, 6:48 AM UTC

SkyPuncher wrote: post #824

clarifier123 wrote: post #362

After reddit started banning people for upvoting the wrong things, this is a logical next step. Contrary to the popular belief, slippery slope isn't a logical fallacy. Anonymity is the only way to combat this. Make sure your online identity isn't connected to your real name. Ideally, you should have separate identities for each website. Using Tor or a VPN is also a good idea.

My perception of Reddit change radically after I had some comments removed from a popular video game subreddit (from which the larger post was removed). I expressed a critical opinion on a video game that I, overall, greatly enjoy, but have been feeling increasing frustration over how the developers have been supporting it. The comment certainly wasn't racist, sexist, political, etc. It was simply critical of an aspe…

Pretty sure that was a moderator action. If it was /r/games, the mods there don’t seem too interested in informing you when they action your comments or posts. They very very often remove comments because of the «no off-topic discussion» rule, even if it’s literally just one off-topic sentence in a paragraph long comment.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#896

Post by bad_username » Thu, Apr 08, 2021, 6:53 AM UTC

twobitshifter wrote: post #516

> It said examples of this “severe misconduct” include terrorist activities, child sexual exploitation, violent extremism, credible threats of mass violence, carrying out or deliberately acting as an accomplice to sexual assault and threatening Twitch or its staff. What points here will not already lead to jail time and an outright ban from all social activities? The bans are for criminal acts that are outside of fre…

"Violent extremism" in the era of "speech is violence" can mean anything at all.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#897

Post by cblconfederate » Thu, Apr 08, 2021, 7:07 AM UTC

stonogo wrote: post #846

cblconfederate wrote: post #714

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then we need public services for communication to save the world from private dystopia, the same way we have public roads. Every country should set up a free mastodon account and email for every citizen. Plus i m not sure the principle of Free speech is that limited, speech doesnt count as speech if it cant reach anyone. And giving to a handful of employees the power to shape the messaging of millions is directly aff…

Perhaps you'd be interested in HAM radio or public-access TV. I don't see why the answer has to be national.

TV is 20th century. It has to be public the same way that roads are public.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#898

Post by chc » Thu, Apr 08, 2021, 7:08 AM UTC

jlawson wrote: post #661

chc wrote: post #622

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These sorts of arguments always fall a bit flat with me for one simple reason: They assume a false causality. Our forbearance doesn't force others to reciprocate. If we try to stop people from encouraging the mass murder of protesters, sure, some people will look for ways to censor other ideas that I support. But if we don't oppose pro-murder propaganda, those people will still look for ways to censor ideas I support…

By the same argument, you'd cheat and steal from literally anyone you could get away with cheating and stealing from. Because not doing it to them doesn't stop them from doing it to you. But this isn't really how it works. Forebearance actually does have value because it changes society as a whole, shifts expectations at a broad scale, and creates moral authority to demand better from others which is persuasive and p…

I think you have drastically misunderstood my argument.

To use your analogy, let's say Bob is constantly stealing from you. You urgently need some essentials, and you say, "I know, I can steal them from Bob." But somebody stops you and says, "Wait, you don't want to do that! If you steal from Bob, he'll steal from you!" You would probably not find this persuasive, because you know Bob will steal from you regardless. There probably are good arguments you can make against stealing from Bob, but that particular one doesn't jibe with reality.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#899

Post by GauntletWizard » Thu, Apr 08, 2021, 7:47 AM UTC

clarifier123 wrote: post #362

After reddit started banning people for upvoting the wrong things, this is a logical next step. Contrary to the popular belief, slippery slope isn't a logical fallacy. Anonymity is the only way to combat this. Make sure your online identity isn't connected to your real name. Ideally, you should have separate identities for each website. Using Tor or a VPN is also a good idea.

None of the logical fallacies upend an argument, anyway - Especially not a political one. Political discussions aren't logical - They're rhetorical. You can say "Not all sharks bite" and it will not have the slightest effect on my argument against a proposal to stock the local swimming pool with sharks.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#900

Post by read_if_gay_ » Thu, Apr 08, 2021, 7:55 AM UTC

ggggtez wrote: post #717

kodah wrote: post #253

I had to type in this box more times than I'm willing to admit to produce something that didn't violate the guidelines. Let's examine why this is problematic: - This will absolutely be leveraged on anyone in a precarious position. It's their ultimate out. Minority groups, majority groups, it doesn't matter - you're in trouble and need a platform to tell your story? Not happening on Twitch. Expect more to sign on to t…

If you go on Facebook and say "Hey, I'm going to go shoot up a school on twitch tomorrow", then Twitch can ban you. Previously, it was unclear that this was bannable because it didn't occur on site. Phrasing this as an argument against "Cancel Culture" is the ultimate moral hand-wringing. There is nothing even closely resembling what you're talking about in this change. This is no slippery slope. This is just the obv…

Thank God Twitch is stopping people from livestreaming how they shoot up a school. It's not like we have mechanisms that work to actually prevent those events in the first place. We really need internet mob justice to provide a non-solution to this already-solved problem.