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New Mexico is the second state to ban qualified immunity

innocenceproject.org

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Re: New Mexico is the second state to ban qualified immunity

#21

Post by Aloha »

caseysoftware wrote: post #14

> “Qualified immunity is a court-created doctrine that allows public officials to escape accountability after they engage in misconduct, even when their actions send an innocent person to prison. I know this is likely impossible.. but I'd love to see prosecutors/law enforcement have to serve out the sentence or someone they convicted via misconduct. Withhold or manufacture evidence to push for a 10 year sentence? Sur…

I'd be willing to go at 25% up to 10 years.

To be honest though, disbarment (particularly if that disbarment was reciprocal) and fine is a more just punishment, because often the issues are so technical that a jury of non lawyers has trouble understanding the issues involved.

The last thing that I'd want to do is send someone to jail for up to 30 years for a good faith mistake, that's not justice either.

Re: New Mexico is the second state to ban qualified immunity

#22

Post by ljp_206 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #12
VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #10

I don't know why anyone would want to be a police officer. There's no upside. Aside from the genuine affection they get from the people they help here and there. Given the nature of their job, it seems like there would be too much personal risk to get involved in any kind of physical altercation with the public. Because if you get in a fight, I mean a real fight, you better be ready to fight-to-win. Because there's a…

> There's no upside A San Jose, California cop makes over $120,000 a year [1]. They also get terrific benefits. [1] https://www.indeed.com/cmp/SAN-Jose-Police-Department/salari...

Seattle cops similarly make bank. Of course, police pay is heavily effected by local cost of living, but Seattle cops make tons of overtime. I just learned there is a minimum three-hour overtime pay, meaning much of the overtime payout isn't even physically worked: https://www.theurbanist.org/2020/09/04/seattle-police-fleeci...

Re: New Mexico is the second state to ban qualified immunity

#23

Post by croes »

VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #10

I don't know why anyone would want to be a police officer. There's no upside. Aside from the genuine affection they get from the people they help here and there. Given the nature of their job, it seems like there would be too much personal risk to get involved in any kind of physical altercation with the public. Because if you get in a fight, I mean a real fight, you better be ready to fight-to-win. Because there's a…

So you think as a compensation for that risk police officers shouldn't be held liable for taking innocent people to prison with their misconduct?

Re: New Mexico is the second state to ban qualified immunity

#24

Post by function_seven »

caseysoftware wrote: post #14

> “Qualified immunity is a court-created doctrine that allows public officials to escape accountability after they engage in misconduct, even when their actions send an innocent person to prison. I know this is likely impossible.. but I'd love to see prosecutors/law enforcement have to serve out the sentence or someone they convicted via misconduct. Withhold or manufacture evidence to push for a 10 year sentence? Sur…

Set the sentence for prosecutorial/judicial misconduct to be the same time as the defendant has served so far. That way there is some incentive to come clean sooner.

In other words, the longer you hide your misdeeds or cover up others', the longer your sentence will be if and when the misconduct is uncovered.

Re: New Mexico is the second state to ban qualified immunity

#25

Post by wahern »

DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #2

I thought that because QI was defended by the SCOTUS, that even if a state doesn't have QI at all, a police officer or department sued for malpractice could still appeal to the SCOTUS and then eventually win?

It's more complicated at the federal level, but in this case the bill abolishes qualified immunity when suing New Mexico officials in New Mexico courts for violations of New Mexico law. Presumably New Mexico courts adopted the federal concept of qualified immunity at some point. See https://www.nmlegis.gov/Sessions/21%20Regular/bills/house/HB...

You usually sue state officials under Federal law when a state doesn't permit residents to sue them at all, or if the claims, defenses, or remedies are too strict. A Civil War Reconstruction-era Federal statue, the Ku Klux Klan Act (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ku_Klux_Klan_Act), enacted under the newly granted powers of the 14th Amendment, permitted people to sue state officials whence previously they were barred by state sovereign immunity. The act was rarely used for the first 80 or so years; why I don't know. Qualified immunity is something SCOTUS cooked up after a rapid increase in such law suits caused some judicial anxiety about the potential chilling effect of supposedly frivolous law suits. To be fair, this was at a time when a rather liberal Supreme Court was effectively inventing new rights, like so-called Miranda rights, right to appointed counsel when indigent, etc, the scope of which were then unclear.

Re: New Mexico is the second state to ban qualified immunity

#26

Post by JumpCrisscross »

coolspot wrote: post #17

I think that the Game theory suggests that cops will be less inclined to show up to a call or do anything to fight crime, because it could bring too much legal responsibility. Eat donuts, ignore the radio and you will be fine.

> cops will be less inclined to show up to a call or do anything to fight crime, because it could bring too much legal responsibility

Police report to elected governments. They are checked the same way the rest of the state is: through elections.

Police pay is high across America because they're widely seen as bringing value to the community. Their strikes are feared by politicians; the cops turning on the mayor signals instant political death in most cities. If that perception of police frays, their leverage disappears.

More pointedly, if a civil servant decides it's too much legal responsibility to not break the law, they should find another line of work.

Re: New Mexico is the second state to ban qualified immunity

#27

Post by upbeat_general »

coolspot wrote: post #17

I think that the Game theory suggests that cops will be less inclined to show up to a call or do anything to fight crime, because it could bring too much legal responsibility. Eat donuts, ignore the radio and you will be fine.

Except that it’s their job to do so. It’s relatively trivial to check what a police officer is doing if the department cares.

Doctors can be sued for malpractice yet they still perform operations.

Re: New Mexico is the second state to ban qualified immunity

#28

Post by adgjlsfhk1 »

CA0DA wrote: post #3

> recover damages from the government when their constitutional rights are violated Great, so I'm paying for the sins of crappy cops via my taxes. Do I have an ability to influence my city or state to not hire unethical cops? (serious question)

Step #1 is get rid of cop unions. They look out for the worst of the worst, and prevent anything from improving.

Re: New Mexico is the second state to ban qualified immunity

#29

Post by bryanrasmussen »

function_seven wrote: post #24
caseysoftware wrote: post #14

> “Qualified immunity is a court-created doctrine that allows public officials to escape accountability after they engage in misconduct, even when their actions send an innocent person to prison. I know this is likely impossible.. but I'd love to see prosecutors/law enforcement have to serve out the sentence or someone they convicted via misconduct. Withhold or manufacture evidence to push for a 10 year sentence? Sur…

Set the sentence for prosecutorial/judicial misconduct to be the same time as the defendant has served so far. That way there is some incentive to come clean sooner. In other words, the longer you hide your misdeeds or cover up others', the longer your sentence will be if and when the misconduct is uncovered.

well if you realize there was misconduct 25 years in to the 30 year sentence then there wouldn't be much reason to come clean, I mean you might be part of a team where X did something wrong, did you do something wrong - when you find out about it and don't come clean you did. Anyway a law should maybe take that scenario into consideration, or, in the American system the courts would have to decide the edge case.

Re: New Mexico is the second state to ban qualified immunity

#30

Post by arcticbull »

Aloha wrote: post #21
caseysoftware wrote: post #14

> “Qualified immunity is a court-created doctrine that allows public officials to escape accountability after they engage in misconduct, even when their actions send an innocent person to prison. I know this is likely impossible.. but I'd love to see prosecutors/law enforcement have to serve out the sentence or someone they convicted via misconduct. Withhold or manufacture evidence to push for a 10 year sentence? Sur…

I'd be willing to go at 25% up to 10 years. To be honest though, disbarment (particularly if that disbarment was reciprocal) and fine is a more just punishment, because often the issues are so technical that a jury of non lawyers has trouble understanding the issues involved. The last thing that I'd want to do is send someone to jail for up to 30 years for a good faith mistake, that's not justice either.

Generally these are crimes of intent so good faith mistakes are unlikely to yield a sentence.
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