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Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

reuters.com

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Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#481

Post by Thorentis »

tw04 wrote: post #111
redm wrote: post #8

"The company said users will be able to report such behaviors but it may also investigate cases proactively, for instance if there is a verified news report that a user has been arrested." So we've arrived at "innocent until accused" instead of "innocent until proven guilty"? And if proven guilty, they will both be punished under the law, and again by companies like Twitch? If proven innocent will they be restored? W…

So you want the government to force private companies to continue doing business with someone they no longer wish to provide services to? We aren't talking protected class here, we're talking private companies picking and choosing who to do business with via non-discriminatory means. That's called a free market. Will they be restored if they're proven innocent? Maybe. Maybe not. Again, that's called a free market.

Every decision is discriminatory. The "protected classes" we have chosen are arbitrary selections based on our societies current opinions about minorities. Every time a business chooses to not do business with somebody, they have discriminated against them for a particular reason. Not enough qualifications, not enough money, didn't like their personality, didn't get a good vibe, didn't like their attitude. Whatever. You can find multiple other people to fit into those same categories.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#482

Post by weird-eye-issue »

onethought wrote: post #434
weird-eye-issue wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You just completely missed the point. Everyone knows who's website it is and that they "can" mod it as they wish. But at a certain scale some moral and ethical questions come into play.

Isn’t this just like other sports, where a star is pilloried for some indiscretion outside of their sport which can result in them being dropped from a team etc?

That is up to the team though. This is closer to a TV station banning somebody so now they can't compete in a sport that will be broadcast on that station, forcing the team to kick them off.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#483

Post by TameAntelope »

kodah wrote: post #415
TameAntelope wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's an interesting consequence of accountability, that the people being held accountable tend to vocally dislike being held accountable, but don't want to say so for some reason. It'd honestly be pretty refreshing for a leader to come out and say, "I don't think my actions should be held against me like your actions should be held against you because I'm special/different." Insane, but refreshingly honest. F…

I think people generally mention accountability when it suits them, specifically when it suits their group morals. Accountability to me is that the government teaches them a lesson, some company doesn't need to jump in line to punish them for me to feel satiated -- that job is done by the government. Moral communities are just that though, tiny groups that would like to exercise their power and worldliness on others…

So you think companies are acting in a moral interest and not in perceived financial interest?

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#484

Post by josephcsible »

dkarras wrote: post #436
ImprovedSilence wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are using the mcarthy blacklist as precedent for banning peoples ability to participate in a social setting. As far as im concerned, since forever that has been used as a reason to question and challenge censorship.

I own Twitch. Can't I just shut it down if I wanted? Or should I be forced to stay open after becoming really popular because shutting it down would prevent millions of people's participation in a social setting?

If you shut it down, competitors would immediately spring up and become way more popular. If you "just" ban someone you don't like, that won't happen.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#485

Post by nitrogen »

kstrauser wrote: post #355
nitrogen wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But what someone does outside of work and not involving coworkers is, by definition, not a part of the workplace environment. Treating everything about a person as within scope for personal concern is one of the things that really strongly turns people against each other. It shouldn't matter what someone believes or does on their own time, whether it's a right-leaning company with a gay employee, or a left-leaning co…

That's not reasonable, and I don't think anyone truly believes that. For instance, if a black guy's boss talks about attending a Ku Klux Klan meeting, you can't honestly argue that said boss leaves that all at home when they meet at work in the morning. Wherever you are on the political spectrum, I'm sure you can imagine someone engaging in some form out outside-work activities that would make you feel personally uns…

you can't honestly argue that said boss leaves that all at home when they meet at work in the morning

If they never mention their non-work life at work, and work is going fine, then isn't that pretty clear evidence that they are leaving it (whatever "it" is) all at home?

consequence of making a hostile workplace.

It's pretty easy to argue, and yes argue honestly, that any hostility here is introduced by the person who brings up something from someone else's non-work life while at work, when previously the two were separate. That's actual harassment.

Someone having an opinion we don't like but that they never bring up at work, is clearly not workplace hostility or harassment on their part.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#486

Post by xyzzy_plugh »

beaconstudios wrote: post #454
xyzzy_plugh wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but the more important factor in these sorts of relationships is that there is in fact usually a binding contract. Twitch refers to these as "Partners" who they have extended a contract to. While I am sure Twitch has the ability to sever that contract essentially at will, it doesn't mean they are exempt from legal repercussions of doing so.

I believe there's precedent for them severing a massive partner at will, in the case of Dr Disrespect.

Yes, but it's always always better to have a policy in place than to make one-off decisions.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#487

Post by Retric »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #408
Retric wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are several bright lines like having an engine.

That's not a really bright line https://www.homedepot.com/p/YARDMAX-Powered-Wheelbarrow-YD41... Having a crew isn't a bright line either since two people will often manhandle a single heavy wheelbarrow. The brightest line is probably that a bulk freighter floats. Still it's a series of small incremental changes all the way from wheelbarrow to mining dump truck (then there's some lines you cross before you get to a bu…

Computer is a job not an object.

English reuses terms, but thus that’s not a wheelbarrow anymore than there are wheelbarrows in a wheelbarrow race. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheelbarrow_race

“A wheelbarrow is a small hand-propelled vehicle...” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheelbarrow while also saying “Power assisted wheelbarrows are now widely available from a number of different manufacturers.”

TLDR; That’s not yet a wheelbarrow, but it might eventually become one.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#488

Post by gh-throw »

Causality1 wrote: post #316
newbie789 wrote: post #250

Coming from the perspective of someone that was an admin of a medium-large forum back in the vBulletin heyday of the early 2000s, I’m somewhat amused by people getting angry at moderation decisions. The rules were pretty clear: This is my website. I pay the bills and maintain it. Here are some clear rules that if you break them, you will be punished with a ban/suspension/shadow an/redirect to goatse upon login/etc. a…

We really need a public utility alternative for electronic discussion and multimedia sharing. There's no argument that internet is an essential service so where's the internet post office?

This is what open protocols were for, but those stopped being viable when trapping users to spy on them became more valuable than selling good services and software.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#489

Post by wpietri »

Thorentis wrote: post #466
newbie789 wrote: post #250

Coming from the perspective of someone that was an admin of a medium-large forum back in the vBulletin heyday of the early 2000s, I’m somewhat amused by people getting angry at moderation decisions. The rules were pretty clear: This is my website. I pay the bills and maintain it. Here are some clear rules that if you break them, you will be punished with a ban/suspension/shadow an/redirect to goatse upon login/etc. a…

Oh look, another "but it's a private company" defence of this behaviour. Imagine a town with a single supermarket. The closest next town is a 10 hour drive away. A certain individual commits a crime, and is punished for it by the local authorities. The supermarket then decides that they are going to ban this individual from their store because of "severe misconduct" in the community. Is this fair? Obviously, Twitch i…

That's not an argument against moderation. That's an argument against monopolies and oligopolies. Banning a guy from the store isn't even in the top 10 worst things that will be going wrong in that scenario.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#490

Post by baobabKoodaa »

sneak wrote: post #195
SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> First and foremost, free speech is a moral principle. Entirely. But... man I’m not so sure as many people believe this as they should. Can we not ignore that as soon as these tech companies get monopoly status, they close their fists in more every day? Something has to give. We would (should) not accept that someone with “wrong” views be denied a bank account or to shop at a grocery store. Why does government need…

> We would (should) not accept that someone with “wrong” views be denied a bank account or to shop at a grocery store. Why? I am fine with banks and grocery stores having freedom of association, just as any other business or person should. Being a KKK member is not a protected class, and discriminating against KKK members in hiring and in the provision of goods or services is entirely in-bounds.

You're fine with preventing KKK members from buying food? You would literally have them starve to death? And you're fine with private corporations making decisions on who has the right to live and who doesn't?

Personally, I value human rights. I think even KKK members have the right to live.

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