Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site • Hacker News Board

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#391

Post by yoz-y » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 9:50 PM UTC

rootusrootus wrote: post #368

omgwtfbbq wrote: post #359

>How different is that from at-will employment though? You can be fired at any time and for more or less any non-federally-protected reason (and can quit any time too). That seems pretty uncontroversial in the US at least. Most Europeans would be horrified by this concept so I'm not sure it supports your argument.

> Most Europeans would be horrified by this concept But they'd be really happy to earn the same level of income.

When speaking about SV tech salaries maybe. But for majority of people, most definitely not.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#392

Post by bilbo0s » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 9:50 PM UTC

devit wrote: post #363

shadowfox wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How different is that from at-will employment though? You can be fired at any time and for more or less any non-federally-protected reason (and can quit any time too). That seems pretty uncontroversial in the US at least.

In most cases there are multiple employers for any job who pay similar wages so one can go work for some other employer if one fires them. But in the Twitch, YouTube, Amazon, etc. cases there is no other platform that pays the same.

But in the Twitch, YouTube, Amazon, etc. cases there is no other platform that pays the same.

Did you not just enumerate 3 different organizations in your comment?

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#393

Post by mdoms » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 9:50 PM UTC

tw04 wrote: post #111

redm wrote: post #8

"The company said users will be able to report such behaviors but it may also investigate cases proactively, for instance if there is a verified news report that a user has been arrested." So we've arrived at "innocent until accused" instead of "innocent until proven guilty"? And if proven guilty, they will both be punished under the law, and again by companies like Twitch? If proven innocent will they be restored? W…

So you want the government to force private companies to continue doing business with someone they no longer wish to provide services to? We aren't talking protected class here, we're talking private companies picking and choosing who to do business with via non-discriminatory means. That's called a free market. Will they be restored if they're proven innocent? Maybe. Maybe not. Again, that's called a free market.

Where did GP say anything about the government?

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#394

Post by kingTug » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 9:50 PM UTC

shadowfox wrote: post #338

dagw wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The significant difference is I (assume) no one depended on your forum for earning a significant part of their income. Once you set yourself as a place where you want people come and earn money, then banning them, and thus depriving them of something of real monetary value, takes on and entire different set of nuances.

How different is that from at-will employment though? You can be fired at any time and for more or less any non-federally-protected reason (and can quit any time too). That seems pretty uncontroversial in the US at least.

It isn’t “controversial” in the US bc labor has no power. At-will employment is a gross, anti-labor practice that america has been brainwashed into thinking is normal.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#395

Post by api » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 9:51 PM UTC

newbie789 wrote: post #250

Coming from the perspective of someone that was an admin of a medium-large forum back in the vBulletin heyday of the early 2000s, I’m somewhat amused by people getting angry at moderation decisions. The rules were pretty clear: This is my website. I pay the bills and maintain it. Here are some clear rules that if you break them, you will be punished with a ban/suspension/shadow an/redirect to goatse upon login/etc. a…

It's becoming a big issue because there are people trying to actually make a living being superstars and/or trolls on these platforms, and because they've become a vehicle for large scale political propaganda. There's money and power involved now, and that changes everything.

That being said I agree that the argument is disingenuous. Freedom of speech is a human right. The use of someone else's platform on which to speak is not.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#396

Post by bryanrasmussen » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 9:51 PM UTC

newbie789 wrote: post #250

Coming from the perspective of someone that was an admin of a medium-large forum back in the vBulletin heyday of the early 2000s, I’m somewhat amused by people getting angry at moderation decisions. The rules were pretty clear: This is my website. I pay the bills and maintain it. Here are some clear rules that if you break them, you will be punished with a ban/suspension/shadow an/redirect to goatse upon login/etc. a…

>medium-large forum back in the vBulletin heyday of the early 2000

how many people were on such a forum, and how many of such forums were there out there to get on?

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#397

Post by fsociety » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 9:51 PM UTC

newbie789 wrote: post #250

Coming from the perspective of someone that was an admin of a medium-large forum back in the vBulletin heyday of the early 2000s, I’m somewhat amused by people getting angry at moderation decisions. The rules were pretty clear: This is my website. I pay the bills and maintain it. Here are some clear rules that if you break them, you will be punished with a ban/suspension/shadow an/redirect to goatse upon login/etc. a…

Getting banned from Twitch can have serious career consequences for streamers and potential streamers. I think the real issue is being banned and not having a reliable appeals process to go through. The appeals process takes long enough that it can tank your viewership.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#398

Post by smt88 » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 9:51 PM UTC

caturopath wrote: post #203

tw04 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you want the government to force private companies to continue doing business with someone they no longer wish to provide services to? We aren't talking protected class here, we're talking private companies picking and choosing who to do business with via non-discriminatory means. That's called a free market. Will they be restored if they're proven innocent? Maybe. Maybe not. Again, that's called a free market.

> So you want the government to force private companies to continue doing business with someone they no longer wish to provide services to? I don't think OP actually said this. But yes, like most people, I want this to happen sometimes. For example, I want a hotel to have to lodge Indian people, whether they actually want to or not. In other cases, I don't want this to be legally required, but still will complain if…

It's incredible stupid to say that protecting an ethnicity (something that can't be changed) is tantamount of protecting ideology (something you are not born with and something that sometimes includes advocating for violence).

Also, no one is illegalizing anything by banning it from Twitch.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#399

Post by amalcon » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 9:52 PM UTC

Alupis wrote: post #142

tw04 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you want the government to force private companies to continue doing business with someone they no longer wish to provide services to? We aren't talking protected class here, we're talking private companies picking and choosing who to do business with via non-discriminatory means. That's called a free market. Will they be restored if they're proven innocent? Maybe. Maybe not. Again, that's called a free market.

At a certain point, these platforms have such enormous, unprecedented influence and control over public discourse, that they aught to be thought of differently than, say a restaurant refusing service to a guy without a shirt or shoes on. We're clearly in uncharted territory, when it comes to the control and release of information. Just using Twitter and Facebook for example - they've silenced the second-most voted fo…

That "censorship and silencing" is just those platforms using their free speech back. If you think the corporations running these platforms don't have that right, you'll want to meaningfully differentiate this decision from e.g. the decision of Fox News to not give equal airtime to someone like AOC.

I think both of those platforms should have editorial discretion.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#400

Post by originalvichy » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 9:52 PM UTC

dolni wrote: post #272

newbie789 wrote: post #250

Coming from the perspective of someone that was an admin of a medium-large forum back in the vBulletin heyday of the early 2000s, I’m somewhat amused by people getting angry at moderation decisions. The rules were pretty clear: This is my website. I pay the bills and maintain it. Here are some clear rules that if you break them, you will be punished with a ban/suspension/shadow an/redirect to goatse upon login/etc. a…

The problem with this for Twitch, specifically, is that Twitch involves money. Many people make streaming a career, and Twitch actively encourages this sort of behavior. At a normal workplace, while people _can_ simply be fired, they typically aren't. That sort of thing kills morale and may even result in protest resignations.

I would say that many (not all) things Twitch has banned users would not be so far fetched as reasons for terminating employment. Aside from obvious non-comparable things that only pertain to online interactions, there is probably a great overlap between ”would I get warned/banned from Twitch” and ”would I get warned/fired at my job”.