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Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

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Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such a lazy argument that I'm so tired of hearing applied to quasi-public services. Maybe Twitch isn't a great example, but a few social media sites are. They might not be the government, but they're platforms with billions of people on them. Justice Thomas recently pointed out that we'll soon have no choice but to grapple with this distinction and determine how principles like the First Amendment apply to no…

It's not a lazy argument, you're just tired of hearing it. It's actually a very strong argument. "quasi-public", "maybe Twitch isn't a great example", "maybe not legally... yet", "some forthcoming legal doctrine"-- these are weak qualifiers. What are you proposing, exactly? How many users is a service allowed to have before their content moderation policies are nationalized? Somewhat ironically, whatever you're propo…

> whatever you're proposing would almost certainly require weakening the first amendment

I assume you're referring to the 1A rights of the corporation, e.g. Twitter's right to decline to publish content it disagrees with. I agree with you there. It's a complex problem. My complaint is more with the argument that only the government can restrict free speech. It's a lazy argument because the reality is far more nuanced than that. For example, consider the fact that AT&T doesn't have the right to drop your phone calls when you start talking about Verizon to the person on the other end of the line.

It's totally fair to talk about the "spirit" of the constitution -- that's why we have the Supreme Court in the first place, to interpret the constitution when its words are not clear. I would also note that the Declaration of Independence doesn't mention any self-evident truth about corporations, but it does describe the rights of the people, and government's role in preserving them. If corporations appear to interfere with those inalienable rights, it's not unreasonable for the government to step in to preserve them.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone and their cat understands that it is hypocritical bullshit. They'd let his incitements slide easily if he was their political ally and not an opponent. I don't have a horse in that race, but it is disgusting how people defend this blatant and obvious bias as perfectly normal thing.

And what sort of incitement is coming from the left? is it "socialize healthcare" or "we should throw molotovs at protests", because the latter isn't allowed on Twitch either.

The Maxine Walters quote (she's a goldmine of things a professional politician is irresponsible to say) was the one I was thinking of but here's a link with a bunch of other stuff too.

https://twitter.com/RealSaavedra/status/1117508460407447552

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#243
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you want the government to force private companies to continue doing business with someone they no longer wish to provide services to? We aren't talking protected class here, we're talking private companies picking and choosing who to do business with via non-discriminatory means. That's called a free market. Will they be restored if they're proven innocent? Maybe. Maybe not. Again, that's called a free market.

Why does everyone talk about the government forcing companies to do things whenever somebody criticizes a company policy? A company can be criticized without the speaker implying that there needs to be legislation.

Especially when such critique is how we're supposed to resolve most disputes in a free society.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a point where this kind of ostracism becomes worse than jail. For many Twitch users, streaming is a substantial part of their social environment or even their full-time job. If I had to choose between a couple weeks in jail and a lifetime ban from working in my industry, or a couple weeks in jail and being banned from all my friend group chats, I'd take jail in a heartbeat.

On the other hand, one person's ostracism is another's right of association. It is just as wrong to force someone to work with a person they do not want to work with, as long as that reason is justifiable (i.e. not a protected class)

Well, I agree with what you're saying, although I'm not sure we're on the same page. I don't think Twitch should be forced to work with people they'd rather ban; I see some proposals in other comment threads to pass a law, and I don't support that. What I want is for Twitch to recognize that this new policy is a bad idea and voluntarily retract it.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#245
post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they've silenced the second-most voted for President in American history, because he isn't their brand of politics 1. The second - and third, for that matter - most voted for President is Obama (69.5 and 65.9M votes). Trump is the fourth (62.9M votes)[1]. 2. He was not banned because he wasn’t ‘their brand of politics’, he was banned for inciting violence against the terms of those platforms. You can certainly argu…

The guy got 74,216,154 votes in 2020. The second most votes in American History, only outclassed by the current President with 81,268,924 votes.[1] Your other point is based on your own personal political biases, which just furthers my point about these platforms controlling the release of information (or disinformation) to the general public. Just imagine if Twitter was a Right-Wing organization, and decided to sile…

That probably would change the current discussion, yes. An amazing number of people would flip positions.

For that to happen, though, the current president would have to do something that was at least colorable as a violation of terms and services. I haven't heard even right-wingers claim that this is so, so far. (But maybe I just haven't heard, not being one who listens to those circles.)

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#246
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Free speech is several principles. One is that you should be free to express yourself. Another is that others should not be able to coerce you into forced speech. Many commenters on HN like to forget that 2nd part because most of their 'solutions" to the first principle violate the 2nd.

There are already narrowly-defined exceptions to the freedom of association in the form of anti-discrimination laws. There is clearly a question of balance to be made.

Indeed. Unfortunately there's no governmental protection in the US of "political discrimination". Political view differences are not a protected class at the moment.

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#247

It's strange to see a company that once prided itself on active engagement with its users to find product-market fit antagonize its content creators so much. And as a user, it gives me the perception that the platform is just plainly unfair. (Plus the platform is unusable without Adblock). Top streamers have been banned or lost partnerships for playing their own music[0], stating controversial political opinions[1][2…

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Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be clear, the controversial political opinions you believe should be platformed by Twitch are: "If that means white redneck militia dudes mowing down dipshit protesters that think they can torch buildings at 10 PM, at this point they have my fucking blessing." and "America Deserved 9/11"? Because those are the literal quotes from things that got people pulled from Twitch and you've labelled "controversial politica…

The full quote from Destiny—a liberal anti-racist, mind you—is: The rioting needs to fucking stop. If that means white redneck militia dudes mowing down dipshit protesters that think they can torch buildings at 10 PM, at this point they have my fucking blessing. Holy shit, this shit needs to stop. It needed to stop a long time ago. To the rest of us, he is expressing exacerbation that law enforcement is allowing chao…

Wait, destiny is banned?

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#249
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

It's also nothing new. Consider the Congressional hearings about rock and roll in the 80s[0], or other moral panics like Prohibition. Anti-abortion groups are a particularly vile form of cancel culture. Politicians will be silently cancelled (not elected) for not publicly pretending to believe in the right sky fairie.

Societies have always shut down behavior and media they collectively find inappropriate. There's no need to track this as anything other than a continuation in a long history of collective groups of humans doing what they do.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OceijOEVqU

Re: Twitch will ban users for 'severe misconduct' that occurs away from its site

#250
Coming from the perspective of someone that was an admin of a medium-large forum back in the vBulletin heyday of the early 2000s, I’m somewhat amused by people getting angry at moderation decisions.

The rules were pretty clear: This is my website. I pay the bills and maintain it. Here are some clear rules that if you break them, you will be punished with a ban/suspension/shadow an/redirect to goatse upon login/etc. at my/the admin team’s discretion.

I can also ban you if I don’t like you. Or if I think it’s funny, or really any other reason.

I was happy, my mods and admins were happy and the users (aside from some banned grumps) were happy.

This is literally how the internet has worked forever. There are users, mods and admins on websites. Twitch is a website.

People getting into deep nuanced discussions about moral good and government over/underreach as an outlet for being angry at the mods never changes.

Note: I am not affiliated with twitch, nor have I ever been a user.

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