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Learning COBOL: A Journey for the Modern Programmer

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Re: Learning COBOL: A Journey for the Modern Programmer

#41

Post by hindsightbias »

slowmotiony wrote: post #24

Does anyone know of any good resources for learning basics of JCL, datasets, jobs, the z/OS Host and so on? I find that when I look at the screens of my mainframe colleagues, the COBOL code is actually the only thing I can wrap my head around, as opposed to all the weird mainframe tools built around it.

https://www.ibm.com/it-infrastructure/z/education

See the train for no cost or fee links at the bottom. I know ISVs and BPs can get 5-day lab courses for free but IDK about the general public.

Re: Learning COBOL: A Journey for the Modern Programmer

#42

Post by p_l »

rbanffy wrote: post #20
giantg2 wrote: post #16

Younger programmers aren't taking up the language because most schools don't teach it and companies aren't interested in training people. Most of the postings want experienced people like senior devs, whether it's for COBOL or some other language. I took COBOL in school and enjoyed it. The JCL is the harder part. I thought about doing COBOL as a career, but there weren't any entry level positions.

> The JCL is the harder part. Even its creators say JCL is the worst language ever invented.

And gave the main reason as "because we tried to not make a language so hard, the requirements evolved it into one in form of exceptions rather than design"

Re: Learning COBOL: A Journey for the Modern Programmer

#43

Post by nullserver »

908B64B197 wrote: post #31
the_af wrote: post #30

I suppose it's again that time of the year when there's a flood of articles trying to convince people that COBOL is worth learning, that it's been updated or that it pays really well, and that there are lots of hidden opportunities for you to make big money working with COBOL! Those of us who actually worked with COBOL aren't fooled though. It bears repeating: COBOL is a horrible language and it's often used in legac…

Keep in mind that everyone working in COBOL trying to squeeze costs. It's a dead ecosystem.

This.

On a different language, but same mindset.

System is many years outdated and no one understands it.

Get a ticket. “Fix all the problems”

Me “Umm okay. Hire 20 people and give us 3 years.”

Them: you have a week by yourself.

14 months later their standpoint is it’s always one more week left.

I can’t tell if they even see the absurdity anymore.

Re: Learning COBOL: A Journey for the Modern Programmer

#44

Post by lotsofpulp »

aoleinik wrote: post #22

Out of curiosity, does knowing COBOL pay well in 2021? It seems COBOL programmers are in critical demand and free market economics should mean that COBOL programmers get paid premiums. I would research this by myself, but not really sure where to start - and googling “COBOL Developer Salary” leads to results in the 80-120k range (which is no small number, but not significantly different from a modern language develop…

>Out of curiosity, does knowing COBOL pay well in 2021?

Apparently not sufficiently "well" to prevent a "shortage" of COBOL programmers.

Re: Learning COBOL: A Journey for the Modern Programmer

#45

Post by 908B64B197 »

nullserver wrote: post #43
908B64B197 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keep in mind that everyone working in COBOL trying to squeeze costs. It's a dead ecosystem.

This. On a different language, but same mindset. System is many years outdated and no one understands it. Get a ticket. “Fix all the problems” Me “Umm okay. Hire 20 people and give us 3 years.” Them: you have a week by yourself. 14 months later their standpoint is it’s always one more week left. I can’t tell if they even see the absurdity anymore.

Do they have a critical dependency on it?

Re: Learning COBOL: A Journey for the Modern Programmer

#46

Post by bogomipz »

marktangotango wrote: post #36
the_af wrote: post #30

I suppose it's again that time of the year when there's a flood of articles trying to convince people that COBOL is worth learning, that it's been updated or that it pays really well, and that there are lots of hidden opportunities for you to make big money working with COBOL! Those of us who actually worked with COBOL aren't fooled though. It bears repeating: COBOL is a horrible language and it's often used in legac…

So much this, I work in a city with literally thousands of former cobol developers who's jobs were offshored over the past two decades. Check online jobs boards, there is very very little demand for this skill, shortage is myth.

>"... I work in a city with literally thousands of former cobol developers who's jobs were offshored over the past two decades."

I was intrigued by this. Can you say what city and why there are so many Cobol developers there?

Re: Learning COBOL: A Journey for the Modern Programmer

#47

Post by bogomipz »

sillyquiet wrote: post #32

I took a survey of historical programming languages course in college that covered FORTRAN, COBOL, SNOBOL, Prolog, SmallTalk, and several others of importance or uniqueness. Each section required a small practical program be written in that language, and we discussed each in its context of usage, 'family tree', syntax etc I guess I am saying programming history classes is where COBOL belongs.

This course sounds really interesting. Do you remember if there was a text book or if there is any online syllabus for it?

Re: Learning COBOL: A Journey for the Modern Programmer

#48

Post by chasil »

slowmotiony wrote: post #24

Does anyone know of any good resources for learning basics of JCL, datasets, jobs, the z/OS Host and so on? I find that when I look at the screens of my mainframe colleagues, the COBOL code is actually the only thing I can wrap my head around, as opposed to all the weird mainframe tools built around it.

I don't know anything about IBM operating systems, but I understand that older versions of System/370 are free and can be run on PCs via this famous emulator:

http://www.hercules-390.eu/

IBM absolutely hates that software.

Re: Learning COBOL: A Journey for the Modern Programmer

#49

Post by marktangotango »

bogomipz wrote: post #46
marktangotango wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So much this, I work in a city with literally thousands of former cobol developers who's jobs were offshored over the past two decades. Check online jobs boards, there is very very little demand for this skill, shortage is myth.

>"... I work in a city with literally thousands of former cobol developers who's jobs were offshored over the past two decades." I was intrigued by this. Can you say what city and why there are so many Cobol developers there?

Any city with telecom, airline headquarters, and financial services. This one has all three. Could be Chicago, and others.

Re: Learning COBOL: A Journey for the Modern Programmer

#50

Post by marktangotango »

AceStrider1 wrote: post #7

But which COBOL? Microfocus now own RM/COBOL and AccuCOBOl, as well as their own MicrFocus Cobol. These are for the IBM PC and run on Windows, Unix, and Linux. Old code usually uses compiler dependent extensions, and without a good amount of work, I can not just recompile using a diffrent vendor's cobol. And if it does happrn to compile it may not work because the expected behaviour of implrmented language key words…

> key words might be slightly diffrent. I ran inro this trying to port code to GNUCobol

Do you recall what those were specifically?

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