Learning COBOL: A Journey for the Modern Programmer • Hacker News Board

Re: Learning COBOL: A Journey for the Modern Programmer

#21

Post by rbanffy » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 5:54 PM UTC

giantg2 wrote: post #18

nikisweeting wrote: post #2

I remember the government's plea for COBOL programmers last year and was surprised we haven't seen that many more posts about it since then. https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/04/what-is-cobol-what-d... https://onezero.medium.com/our-government-runs-on-a-60-year-... Just this one yesterday: https://www.govtech.com/opinion/An-Apology-to-COBOL-Maybe-Ol...

Maybe if they took the time to train people and create a sustainable talent pipeline then they wouldn't be in this position. They only want experts and nobody want to train.

They are also somewhat underpaid. I’d totally like to be paid to work on mainframes, even if writing COBOL code, but not by taking a pay cut.

Re: Learning COBOL: A Journey for the Modern Programmer

#22

Post by aoleinik » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 5:56 PM UTC

Out of curiosity, does knowing COBOL pay well in 2021? It seems COBOL programmers are in critical demand and free market economics should mean that COBOL programmers get paid premiums.

I would research this by myself, but not really sure where to start - and googling “COBOL Developer Salary” leads to results in the 80-120k range (which is no small number, but not significantly different from a modern language developer)

Re: Learning COBOL: A Journey for the Modern Programmer

#23

Post by giantg2 » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 5:57 PM UTC

rbanffy wrote: post #21

giantg2 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe if they took the time to train people and create a sustainable talent pipeline then they wouldn't be in this position. They only want experts and nobody want to train.

They are also somewhat underpaid. I’d totally like to be paid to work on mainframes, even if writing COBOL code, but not by taking a pay cut.

How much do you make?

Many of the postings I see are $250k+. That's like 3x what I make.

Re: Learning COBOL: A Journey for the Modern Programmer

#24

Post by slowmotiony » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 5:59 PM UTC

Does anyone know of any good resources for learning basics of JCL, datasets, jobs, the z/OS Host and so on? I find that when I look at the screens of my mainframe colleagues, the COBOL code is actually the only thing I can wrap my head around, as opposed to all the weird mainframe tools built around it.

Re: Learning COBOL: A Journey for the Modern Programmer

#25

Post by rbanffy » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 6:02 PM UTC

giantg2 wrote: post #23

rbanffy wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are also somewhat underpaid. I’d totally like to be paid to work on mainframes, even if writing COBOL code, but not by taking a pay cut.

How much do you make? Many of the postings I see are $250k+. That's like 3x what I make.

I never saw one of those, but I don’t think I could be a senior COBOL developer. I’d need training on both language and zOS.

Re: Learning COBOL: A Journey for the Modern Programmer

#26

Post by slowmotiony » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 6:03 PM UTC

giantg2 wrote: post #23

rbanffy wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are also somewhat underpaid. I’d totally like to be paid to work on mainframes, even if writing COBOL code, but not by taking a pay cut.

How much do you make? Many of the postings I see are $250k+. That's like 3x what I make.

I think it depends on the skill. I see young programmers from big companies like IBM or Accenture making peanuts and working constant overtime while the older guys (I'm talking 30 years experience) who are independent consultants quote 1000€+/day.

Re: Learning COBOL: A Journey for the Modern Programmer

#27

Post by jdcaballerov » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 6:03 PM UTC

slowmotiony wrote: post #24

Does anyone know of any good resources for learning basics of JCL, datasets, jobs, the z/OS Host and so on? I find that when I look at the screens of my mainframe colleagues, the COBOL code is actually the only thing I can wrap my head around, as opposed to all the weird mainframe tools built around it.

the videos on the resources cover JCL and other tools.

Re: Learning COBOL: A Journey for the Modern Programmer

#28

Post by the_af » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 6:05 PM UTC

aoleinik wrote: post #22

Out of curiosity, does knowing COBOL pay well in 2021? It seems COBOL programmers are in critical demand and free market economics should mean that COBOL programmers get paid premiums. I would research this by myself, but not really sure where to start - and googling “COBOL Developer Salary” leads to results in the 80-120k range (which is no small number, but not significantly different from a modern language develop…

No, it doesn't, at least not in my country (not the US).

It's a falsehood that often gets repeated. No, COBOL jobs don't pay particularly well. Plus they have the downside of, you know, having to work with COBOL, a horrible programming language. And mostly at banks and financial institutions, the main users of legacy COBOL systems.

Re: Learning COBOL: A Journey for the Modern Programmer

#29

Post by the_af » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 6:07 PM UTC

Bostonian wrote: post #6

Looking at COBOL code such as PERFORM N TIMES ADD 1 TO I DIVIDE X2 INTO 1500 GIVING Y SUBTRACT Y FROM 815 GIVING Y DIVIDE X1 INTO Y MOVE X1 TO X2 SUBTRACT Y FROM 108 GIVING X1 DISPLAY I'|'X1 END-PERFORM. I wonder if someone has written a Python-to-Cobol translator so that you can program using regular math notation and then translate that into wordy Cobol.

Looks like the COBOL I saw when working at a bank, years ago. And it wasn't the output of any automated translation.

COBOL is simply horrible. Avoid it if you can.

Re: Learning COBOL: A Journey for the Modern Programmer

#30

Post by the_af » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 6:09 PM UTC

I suppose it's again that time of the year when there's a flood of articles trying to convince people that COBOL is worth learning, that it's been updated or that it pays really well, and that there are lots of hidden opportunities for you to make big money working with COBOL!

Those of us who actually worked with COBOL aren't fooled though. It bears repeating: COBOL is a horrible language and it's often used in legacy banking systems. Learn it at your own peril, especially when there are way more interesting languages and jobs out there.