Particle mystery: physicists confirm the muon is more magnetic than predicted • Hacker News Board

Re: Particle mystery: physicists confirm the muon is more magnetic than predicted

#51

Post by bluGill » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 5:21 PM UTC

gautamcgoel wrote: post #47

astrophysician wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a physicists standpoint, not seeing something unexpected is not a waste at all.

Can you expand on that? I was under the impression that many thought of it as a waste (Sabine Hossenfelder comes to mind, for example).

Some do I'm sure. However if we see something unexpected and it turns out to be true that means our ideas of physics are fundamentally wrong. While it is long term good to correct our understanding, in the mean time a lot of the real world depends on us being right, and so until we correct the theory who knows what will work. I'd hate to find our margin of safety on nuclear bombs was too small and it is only luck that they haven't all blown up in their silos over the years.

Re: Particle mystery: physicists confirm the muon is more magnetic than predicted

#52

Post by ajkjk » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 5:22 PM UTC

davidivadavid wrote: post #37

Physics noob question: is there any physical framework that does away with the concept of "force"? I know a bit about how it is reconceptualized as space-time deformation in the context of general relativity, but that's about it. It just seems like one of those inherently anthropocentric concepts that (potentially) holds us back from exploring something different?

Yes, very much so. Forces are not really a thing in the Standard Model. There are symmetry groups attached to spacetime which lead to exchanges of gauge bosons which 'create' forces.

Re: Particle mystery: physicists confirm the muon is more magnetic than predicted

#53

Post by aworkerbee » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 5:22 PM UTC

Can anyone recommend any pop-sci books? I haven't taken a science class since high school, and that is barely remembered. Mostly interested in getting philosophically up to date with the state of matter(?), it's different types, how these objects interact.

Re: Particle mystery: physicists confirm the muon is more magnetic than predicted

#54

Post by BiteCode_dev » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 5:23 PM UTC

ipnon wrote: post #40

Nature seems to have this interesting property of always increasing in perceived complexity.

Wouldn't that be amazing if the universe developed more and more characteristics as you look for them? Or even, that it's pushed to create something when you do?

Infinite playground.

Re: Particle mystery: physicists confirm the muon is more magnetic than predicted

#55

Post by arbitrage » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 5:24 PM UTC

gautamcgoel wrote: post #41

Honestly feel sorry for particle physicists... Their entire gig is spending billions on fancy equipment, and hoping that observe something unexpected. If they see exactly what they expected to see, all that effort was basically wasted. Also, a lot of "discoveries" turn out to be equipment miscalibration - remember those particles which supposedly moved faster than light a few years back? Always struck me as an odd wa…

Remember, you can't solve the halting problem.

This is progress. Sometimes science takes two steps back and one step forward. Sometimes that one step is bigger than you realized. And it wasn't backwards, it was projecting into a different spacial dimension. Or something.

The point is, this is probably good news, honestly.

Re: Particle mystery: physicists confirm the muon is more magnetic than predicted

#56

Post by BlueTemplar » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 5:24 PM UTC

davidivadavid wrote: post #37

Physics noob question: is there any physical framework that does away with the concept of "force"? I know a bit about how it is reconceptualized as space-time deformation in the context of general relativity, but that's about it. It just seems like one of those inherently anthropocentric concepts that (potentially) holds us back from exploring something different?

I'd have to brush up on my quantum mechanics, but IIRC they don't have the concept of "force" ?

(F=ma being replaced by Schrodinger's equation.)

Re: Particle mystery: physicists confirm the muon is more magnetic than predicted

#57

Post by HellDunkel » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 5:24 PM UTC

misiti3780 wrote: post #7

What is everyones favorite book on quantum mechanics (I would love understand more of the 3 generations of matter)?

As a layperson i really enjoyed Brian Greenes Fabric of the Cosmos. It is a great read and the chapters on quantum mechanics are captivating.

Re: Particle mystery: physicists confirm the muon is more magnetic than predicted

#58

Post by dkersten » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 5:25 PM UTC

davidivadavid wrote: post #37

Physics noob question: is there any physical framework that does away with the concept of "force"? I know a bit about how it is reconceptualized as space-time deformation in the context of general relativity, but that's about it. It just seems like one of those inherently anthropocentric concepts that (potentially) holds us back from exploring something different?

Isn't quantum field theory kinda like that in that "forces" are actually just the effects of the fields interacting? (Not a physicist, so...)

Re: Particle mystery: physicists confirm the muon is more magnetic than predicted

#59

Post by throw1234651234 » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 5:25 PM UTC

aworkerbee wrote: post #53

Can anyone recommend any pop-sci books? I haven't taken a science class since high school, and that is barely remembered. Mostly interested in getting philosophically up to date with the state of matter(?), it's different types, how these objects interact.

The only update that I got since was high school was that electrons aren't on concrete orbitals around the nucleus, but that there is a probability distribution saying that they are likely somewhere around the area where the concrete "orbital" concept is usually drawn.

That and quantum shenanigans, but that comes down to "we can't transport information faster than light."

Re: Particle mystery: physicists confirm the muon is more magnetic than predicted

#60

Post by BlueTemplar » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 5:26 PM UTC

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #54

ipnon wrote: post #40

Nature seems to have this interesting property of always increasing in perceived complexity.

Wouldn't that be amazing if the universe developed more and more characteristics as you look for them? Or even, that it's pushed to create something when you do? Infinite playground.

Godel kind of proved that about Mathematics.