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Cosmic rays causing 30k network malfunctions in Japan each year

mainichi.jp

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Re: Cosmic rays causing 30k network malfunctions in Japan each year

#51

Post by belter »

ourcat wrote: post #26
belter wrote: post #10

They have to do two things :-) 1) Use ECC memory 2) Go underground "One experiment measured the soft error rate at the sea level to be 5,950 failures in time (FIT = failures per billion hours) per DRAM chip. When the same test setup was moved to an underground vault, shielded by over 50 feet (15 m) of rock that effectively eliminated all cosmic rays, zero soft errors were recorded.[6] In this test, all other causes o…

A 'Faraday Cage' should also help. edit: No idea why the downvotes. Faraday cages have long been thought of as a way to protect electrical devices from the electromagnetic waves which can be a result of solar flares. I even chatted to someone from NASA’s Solar Dynamics Observatory about it in the past.

Because a Faraday Cage would make it worst not better:

https://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/1fsiv9/how_effe...

Re: Cosmic rays causing 30k network malfunctions in Japan each year

#52

Post by reportingsjr »

jmcqk6 wrote: post #42
notum wrote: post #16

Cosmic rays are, or rather were, the reason why manufactures avoid shipping high end cameras by plane, cosmic rays kill pixels in imaging sensors: https://youtu.be/98FZ8C6HneE?t=479 It's also the reason why all ISS footage has dead pixels on it.

Does anyone know how this works with our space-based telescopes? Or even our mountain top observatories? Surely if it's this crazy, they have to deal with that as well?

Yes, the electronics, including imaging sensors are all radiation hardened.

This can involve things such as using digital circuits that are radiation resistant (e.g. look up radiation resistant flip flop). Using multiple computers running the same thing that all "vote" for the correct result, so if one computer has an error from radiation you don't suffer. Using semiconductors that are more resistant to radiation (larger band gaps mean more energy required to flip a bit).

Physical shielding is key as well. The infrared imager on the Cassini probe had a case made out of tantalum, as tantalum is a very dense material which prevents a lot of radiation from going through it.

Re: Cosmic rays causing 30k network malfunctions in Japan each year

#53

Post by gotostatement »

stuartcw wrote: post #4

I have always wondered whether new ideas are seeded by cosmic rays disturbing neurons in the brain..

seems too low-level, no? the temporary excitation of a single neuron would most likely just fade away into the equilibrating process of the brain

Re: Cosmic rays causing 30k network malfunctions in Japan each year

#54

Post by andi999 »

typon wrote: post #50
tinco wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is actually a thing people are criticizing Musk for, he is being accused of sending people to Mars with insufficient shielding against cosmic rays. In my opinion it's a bit silly argument, as there's a whole bunch of other risks and quality of life sacrifices made by the persons who are going to undertake that journey. Some raised chance of cancer is probably the least of their worries.

Humans going to Mars should expect to never come back

But at least they should reasonably expect to arrive.

Re: Cosmic rays causing 30k network malfunctions in Japan each year

#55

Post by andi999 »

andy_ppp wrote: post #35
notum wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rays hit our planet regardless of Sun, if anything it might block a few. They are caused by ultra-energetic cosmic events, such as star collisions, black hole feeding cycles. Cosmic rays are just very potent photons, capable of knocking out electrons from an atom (meaning they are ionizing) causing havoc in precision electronics and, well, our DNA.

What is the tolerance for cosmic rays for a human... I ask because on the journey to Mars you’ll get quite a few I guess and also on the planet’s surface after you’re there with such a thin atmosphere?

I remember vaguely that if there would have been a sun eruption at the lunar mission the team might have died. I tried a while ago to find a good source on that though. If this were true, forget Mars.

Re: Cosmic rays causing 30k network malfunctions in Japan each year

#56

Post by CameronNemo »

gotostatement wrote: post #53
stuartcw wrote: post #4

I have always wondered whether new ideas are seeded by cosmic rays disturbing neurons in the brain..

seems too low-level, no? the temporary excitation of a single neuron would most likely just fade away into the equilibrating process of the brain

>In chaos theory, the butterfly effect is the sensitive dependence on initial conditions in which a small change in one state of a deterministic nonlinear system can result in large differences in a later state.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly_effect

Re: Cosmic rays causing 30k network malfunctions in Japan each year

#57

Post by supernova87a »

jmcqk6 wrote: post #42
notum wrote: post #16

Cosmic rays are, or rather were, the reason why manufactures avoid shipping high end cameras by plane, cosmic rays kill pixels in imaging sensors: https://youtu.be/98FZ8C6HneE?t=479 It's also the reason why all ISS footage has dead pixels on it.

Does anyone know how this works with our space-based telescopes? Or even our mountain top observatories? Surely if it's this crazy, they have to deal with that as well?

Well one thing they also do is that pretty much any desired image is taken multiple times/multiple exposures, and multiple offset positions in close succession to remove exactly such artifacts. The images are then stacked, etc.

So this allows removal of effects that do not correlate with what is physically should be in the image, but is an artifact of the sensor, image system, etc:

-- sensor artifacts: dead pixels, flat field irregularity, pixel response variations, electronic noise

-- imaging system issues: optical problems, lens/mirror defects

-- and then exactly what's being discussed here: cosmic rays, transient objects (satellite tracks!)

Re: Cosmic rays causing 30k network malfunctions in Japan each year

#59

Post by supernova87a »

robbmorganf wrote: post #27
tyingq wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Polyethylene is supposedly good at blocking cosmic rays. It would be funny to me if the fix was just a drop ceiling full of old grocery bags.

Have a source? That seems like an awesome way to recycle grocery bags.

Water is also a good protector. And the polyethylene is actually a proxy for "hydrogen atoms". The reason is that dense hydrogen has a lot of protons to interact with the incoming radiation.

But unfortunately plastic bags are not dense polyethylene. You would kind of need full blocks of solid polyethylene...

Re: Cosmic rays causing 30k network malfunctions in Japan each year

#60

Post by supernova87a »

deepsun wrote: post #13
stuartcw wrote: post #4

I have always wondered whether new ideas are seeded by cosmic rays disturbing neurons in the brain..

That'd mean people underground (or under thick layer of concrete, like in skyscrapers) are not creative.

But grad students are often sent to work in the basement, and yet they need to have the most ideas!
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