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The Penguin Oil Industry (2019)

thetravellingcheetah.com

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Re: The Penguin Oil Industry (2019)

#41

Post by flyGuyOnTheSly »

seszett wrote: post #10

The article lacks IMO the most gruesome tool that was used for processing penguins, the penguin press : https://ssz.fr/brdl/presse-manchots.jpg I took it on Kerguelen island, that's not a very good picture but you get the idea, a nice engineering detail is that the handle that turns the spiked rollers also has a blade and slices the pressed penguins into smaller slices. Most of the time though (at least on Kerguelen)…

I wonder if any of the penguins around today have any idea what that piece of iron is.

If they have any oral history or anything of the sort...

Re: The Penguin Oil Industry (2019)

#42

Post by msrenee »

Robotbeat wrote: post #37
PlatonicSkittle wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want to get into a long debate, but even backyard chickens often have problems. For one, while the chickens aren't abused while they lay eggs, are they killed when they stop laying eggs regularly, after about 2 years? Chickens live for up to 12 years, but only lay eggs regularly for around 2 to 4. It's possible they are raised for their full lifespan, but it's something to ask about, nonetheless. Second, roug…

Well that’s interesting to know. I think it is possible to do backyard chickens for eggs ethically, then. Just get an equal number of male and female chickens (gotta keep the females separate when still laying?) and keep them as pets long after they’re done laying. Eggs as a delicacy rather than as a major part of the diet.

Roosters are aggressive and territorial. You can sometimes house them together, but it's more difficult than hens and even hens have some pretty nasty pecking order disputes if they aren't raised together. Hens do not have to be kept separate while laying as long as you don't mind fertilized eggs. However, roosters can be dangerously aggressive towards hens in captivity. Over breeding and tearing out of feathers are not unusual and can make a hen's life pretty miserable. In extreme circumstances it is deadly to the hen. They can also be overprotective of their hens and attack their owners mercilessly when it comes time to clean the pen and collect eggs. The backyard chicken keepers I know do not keep roosters unless they're needed to protect the hens from predators.

Re: The Penguin Oil Industry (2019)

#43

Post by Robotbeat »

msrenee wrote: post #42
Robotbeat wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well that’s interesting to know. I think it is possible to do backyard chickens for eggs ethically, then. Just get an equal number of male and female chickens (gotta keep the females separate when still laying?) and keep them as pets long after they’re done laying. Eggs as a delicacy rather than as a major part of the diet.

Roosters are aggressive and territorial. You can sometimes house them together, but it's more difficult than hens and even hens have some pretty nasty pecking order disputes if they aren't raised together. Hens do not have to be kept separate while laying as long as you don't mind fertilized eggs. However, roosters can be dangerously aggressive towards hens in captivity. Over breeding and tearing out of feathers are…

Oh, interesting that roosters actually have more than a (small) social benefit to the hens in providing protection from predators. I thought it was mostly negative (I was aware of roosters attacking hens, etc). I wonder if more, um, sociable roosters could be bred? Maybe just neuter them so you don’t have fertilized eggs and you reduce their aggression? But I suppose that might reduce their effectiveness as a defense against predators.

All very interesting, thanks!

EDIT: apparently there are more calm rooster breeds: “If you want to choose breeds with a reputation for calm or friendly roosters, Faverolles are my favorite, and Barred Rocks are also very nice. Orpingtons and Cochins and Brahmas also have a reputation as nice, calm birds. Many people love Silkie roosters, too.” https://www.mypetchicken.com/backyard-chickens/chicken-help/...

Re: The Penguin Oil Industry (2019)

#44

Post by toomanybeersies »

somedude895 wrote: post #21
azalemeth wrote: post #4

This article is unimaginably bleak. Fascinating, morbid, and just plain gruesome. I wonder how long until descendants of ours look back on our existence with similar gut-wrenching sensations of "that's...evil" .

If you look at how sausages are made I think it won't be long until that happens: "We used to kill animals, grind their bodies into a paste and then stuff that paste back into their own bowels." Sounds pretty gnarly when you put it that way.

Generally sausages are made from offcuts. It's not like an entire pig is slaughtered, ground up, and stuffed back into its own intestines.

Re: The Penguin Oil Industry (2019)

#45

Post by toomanybeersies »

azalemeth wrote: post #4

This article is unimaginably bleak. Fascinating, morbid, and just plain gruesome. I wonder how long until descendants of ours look back on our existence with similar gut-wrenching sensations of "that's...evil" .

Industrial chicken production (I'm hesitant to call it farming) isn't any better. It's still common practice to cull male chicks using a grinder.

It's arguably the most humane method; alternative methods include gassing with CO2, smothering them in plastic bags, or breaking their necks. Definitely morbid and gruesome, regardless.

Re: The Penguin Oil Industry (2019)

#46

Post by toomanybeersies »

rozab wrote: post #19
smcl wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The image of thousands of penguins every day being rendered into oil makes me deeply sad, and I've no idea why it affects me more than the other animals we raise as livestock. It's not just that they're cute - since cows are IMO quite adorable - I cannot put my finger on it.

Penguins are alien, we think of them as living in the last places untouched by civilisation. They feel like the opposite of a domestic animal.

I know Australia is relatively remote, but it's a bit uncharitable to say we're untouched by civilisation!

Re: The Penguin Oil Industry (2019)

#47

Post by PlatonicSkittle »

msrenee wrote: post #40
PlatonicSkittle wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want to get into a long debate, but even backyard chickens often have problems. For one, while the chickens aren't abused while they lay eggs, are they killed when they stop laying eggs regularly, after about 2 years? Chickens live for up to 12 years, but only lay eggs regularly for around 2 to 4. It's possible they are raised for their full lifespan, but it's something to ask about, nonetheless. Second, roug…

I'm sure there have been chickens that lived to 12 years old, but most breeds I know of live 5-8 years. Saying that chickens live for up to 12 years is like saying humans live up to 130 years. Yes, it happens, but the majority die in what, their 70's or 80's? I'm not sure what you want to do about roosters. I'd be willing to bet most male jungle fowl die young in the wild too due to lack of flock protection and battl…

> but most breeds I know of live 5-8 years.

Yeah up to 12 was meant to communicate a rough upper bound, not typical lifespans. Same for the 4 years or regular egg production figure, upper bound. The important part is that hen lifespans are significantly longer than their egg laying years, and all commercial and many individual farmers don't want to spend money on a hen that doesn't lay eggs.

> I'm not sure what you want to do about roosters.

Well, we could not breed them in the first place, since we know they'll need to be immediately killed.

Re: The Penguin Oil Industry (2019)

#48

Post by ClumsyPilot »

smcl wrote: post #5
azalemeth wrote: post #4

This article is unimaginably bleak. Fascinating, morbid, and just plain gruesome. I wonder how long until descendants of ours look back on our existence with similar gut-wrenching sensations of "that's...evil" .

The image of thousands of penguins every day being rendered into oil makes me deeply sad, and I've no idea why it affects me more than the other animals we raise as livestock. It's not just that they're cute - since cows are IMO quite adorable - I cannot put my finger on it.

I feel it's fairly straightforward - we've been eating animals since caveman times, and it's (or was) a necessity of life. Many cultures have various rituals around killing the animal, making sure it's painless (that's what halal was for it's time), thanking god for the bounty or whatever. Obvious modern context is different, but still.

Oil is 'food' for machines, and it certainly doesn't need to come from live creatures. To steam alive penguins by the thousands to produce measly 400g of oil, while wasting the rest of the carcass - that's barbaric. This whole process has simultaneously Nazi and Matrix vibes to it.

Re: The Penguin Oil Industry (2019)

#49

Post by msrenee »

PlatonicSkittle wrote: post #47
msrenee wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure there have been chickens that lived to 12 years old, but most breeds I know of live 5-8 years. Saying that chickens live for up to 12 years is like saying humans live up to 130 years. Yes, it happens, but the majority die in what, their 70's or 80's? I'm not sure what you want to do about roosters. I'd be willing to bet most male jungle fowl die young in the wild too due to lack of flock protection and battl…

> but most breeds I know of live 5-8 years. Yeah up to 12 was meant to communicate a rough upper bound, not typical lifespans. Same for the 4 years or regular egg production figure, upper bound. The important part is that hen lifespans are significantly longer than their egg laying years, and all commercial and many individual farmers don't want to spend money on a hen that doesn't lay eggs. > I'm not sure what you w…

If you had said 8 or 9 years, that would have been a reasonable way to communicate that they live longer than they lay eggs. When you pull out a number like 12 years for an animal that can die of old age at 6, you're either misinformed or exaggerating to make your argument stronger.

I think we're going to be at odds with each other on livestock no matter what because of different views on death. If an animal lives a long, rough, miserable life and dies of old age, that to me is an awful thing to do to an animal. If an animal lives a pleasant but short life and is well treated before it is humanely killed, I see no tragedy in that. My problem with eating meat is that the animal's short life is not a good one in the vast majority of cases. However, I have no problem at all with that life being ended humanely well before they reach old age. Death in itself is not a tragedy. Living in poor conditions or past the point where you can function without pain absolutely is.

Re: The Penguin Oil Industry (2019)

#50

Post by smcl »

entropi wrote: post #20
smcl wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The image of thousands of penguins every day being rendered into oil makes me deeply sad, and I've no idea why it affects me more than the other animals we raise as livestock. It's not just that they're cute - since cows are IMO quite adorable - I cannot put my finger on it.

I thought about this too. The explanation I've reached is that when it comes to livestock, there is a certain amount of.. respect? going into the process. We are raising and exploiting cattle for thousands of years now, and every part of an animal is either directly consumed or used in other ways. Many cultures have elaborate rituals surrounding the slaughter, etc. This, I think, gives the impression of value to us.…

You are right this definitely reflects some of the feelings I have bouncing around in my head. I agree "respect" isn't the right word but I wouldn't be able to come up with a better word myself.
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