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Screw it, I’ll host it myself

markozivanovic.com

31–40 of 495 posts

Re: Screw it, I’ll host it myself

#31
post #9

Funny headline, because every time I try to self-host anything important like mail, I learn how deep that field is and how little I know and that I'll probably need many many hours to do everything right and in a secure way (and my mails would still have a higher probability to be classified as spam). Then I think: "Screw it, I'll just use GMail"

Interestingly, it doesn't look like the author is self-hosting email. I know mail-in-a-box exists, but even with that I find it's worth the peace of mind to pay someone else for mail hosting.

I ran my own email server on my own domain for years. You're right, it's kind of its own special nightmare to integrate all the parts of a comprehensive email system (I eventually started using Zimbra's free server software because of it), but spam effectively killed being able to self-host more. Even if you setup SPF and DKIM and all the rest, you'll find yourself getting blackholed anyway because you're NOT Google or Apple or Microsoft. It's not like I even sent email in bulk either. It was just my normal, personal account. But getting OFF blackhole lists became enough work that I had to route my mail through Gmail anyway, so I just gave up self-hosting entirely. That was, like, 7 or 8 years ago, though, so maybe things are different now, but I doubt it. I expect it to only have gotten worse.

Re: Screw it, I’ll host it myself

#32

The diagram alone is more than enough of an argument to dissuade me from giving this a shot right now - it's simply too complicated and too much to manage for the amount of time I can dedicate to it. BUT - I'm really thankful for people who keep posting and sharing these sorts of projects; they're the ones iterating the process for the rest of us who need something a bit more turn-key. I'm excited to see this eventua…

I used Cloudron.io for most of the above. Check them out. Most polished self hosting experience by far.

Re: Screw it, I’ll host it myself

#33
post #9

Funny headline, because every time I try to self-host anything important like mail, I learn how deep that field is and how little I know and that I'll probably need many many hours to do everything right and in a secure way (and my mails would still have a higher probability to be classified as spam). Then I think: "Screw it, I'll just use GMail"

Email totally sucks. I ran BSD servers for an enterprise web app, but Postfix/SASL/Cyrus brings me to my knees when I need to build it.

Most hosting providers with a $3/mo CPanel option gives you an out-of-the-box, highly configurable email server.

Re: Screw it, I’ll host it myself

#34
post #30

Where does he host his email? It doesn't say. Also, his website is very slow, probably because he's not using a CDN. A noble goal, but it has an impact on credibility. The slow website makes me feel like he doesn't care about user experience, which makes me assume that is true for his whole setup, and turns me off from even considering it.

That’s a massive jump to make when he is probably being beaten to hell by HN right now. That’s not a reasonable chain of expectation. Reevaluate your logic.

Re: Screw it, I’ll host it myself

#35
Depending on what you need, a NAS + Syncthing is much simpler than the linked article. Building a PC isn't hard, and keeps prices down. These days, a RPi 4+2 USB HDDs would run circles around the motherboard on my NAS.

Syncthing is a great continuous backup solution. I use ~/NOTES as a scratchpad, and it updates automatically between my various computers. It gives you pretty granular control over shares, and I back up critical stuff to a cloud provider.

That said, there's no calendar/email/notes. XigmaNAS is built on FreeBSD, and will happily run NextCloud or a photo gallery or whatever.

Re: Screw it, I’ll host it myself

#36
post #20
post #9

Funny headline, because every time I try to self-host anything important like mail, I learn how deep that field is and how little I know and that I'll probably need many many hours to do everything right and in a secure way (and my mails would still have a higher probability to be classified as spam). Then I think: "Screw it, I'll just use GMail"

Regarding email, I spent some tens of hours setting it up, including implementing DKIM, DMARC, SPF and getting my mail delivered to Gmail and O365. That was over a year ago and things mostly just work with the occasional upgrade or configuration change. You could also save a lot of time by going with a pre-packaged solution. I understand if you don't have time for that, but at least in my experience, self-hosting ema…

My experience has been similar. The most important thing that can't be easily resolved is if the server's IP is already on the blocklists, but other than that DKIM, DMARC, SPF, and reverse resolution together solves the ~~magical ritual~~ heuristics that make the big guys happy.

Re: Screw it, I’ll host it myself

#37

The diagram alone is more than enough of an argument to dissuade me from giving this a shot right now - it's simply too complicated and too much to manage for the amount of time I can dedicate to it. BUT - I'm really thankful for people who keep posting and sharing these sorts of projects; they're the ones iterating the process for the rest of us who need something a bit more turn-key. I'm excited to see this eventua…

We always have this debate at work. Do we build the system ourselves or do we purchase a product? On prem Prometheus or push everything to DataDog? I'm always a fan of building things myself because I like building things, but my company compares engineering time vs product cost.

Re: Screw it, I’ll host it myself

#38

The diagram alone is more than enough of an argument to dissuade me from giving this a shot right now - it's simply too complicated and too much to manage for the amount of time I can dedicate to it. BUT - I'm really thankful for people who keep posting and sharing these sorts of projects; they're the ones iterating the process for the rest of us who need something a bit more turn-key. I'm excited to see this eventua…

i've actually daydreamed about starting a computing appliance company that would make a variety of services plug and play for consumers and small businesses, from email to storage, to networking, to security, and to smart home. it's actually the direction apple is headed, but they're encumbered by the innovator's dilemma, which leaves an opportunity for an upstart. google and facebook are similarly too focused on adtech, while amazon on commerce, to lock up this market yet.

Re: Screw it, I’ll host it myself

#40
If you really want control, what matters more is you having control of your own domain and encrypting what doesn't need to be public, such as backups and notes. Managing a self hosted system is often more expensive and more time consuming, and often those self hosted services store unencrypted versions of your data. But now you have to maintain the security of it yourself, usually worse than professional services, and your still one subpoena or hack away from it being exposed.

In the end you are still just as vulnerable getting booted off with VPSs like you are with google, but with domain control you can still switch hosts without losing your address, and you usually have customer support.

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