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Google reminds users to "Call Dad", makes users angry

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Re: Google reminds users to "Call Dad", makes users angry

#71
post #69
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are completely valid appeals to emotion, because it is the emotional context of the reminder that makes it significant. If you don't understand why someone might feel bad after seeing that show up in their todo list, then you don't understand the problem. That said, as someone with pretty unhappy history with his father, I think what Google did here is fine. But really, not every emotional appeal is a fallacy.

When there is a perfectly good objective argument to be made (in this case, that undeletable reminders is a bad user experience), I do think an appeal to emotion is ineffective if not fallacious. In this case, the particular emotional appeal seems either insincere or unreasonable. Are people who have bad or deceased fathers offended by the very notion of Father's Day and the marketing around it? I doubt it, but even…

That's the difference between posting something in a space people view as public and a space people view as their own personal area. People have much more of a right to be offended about the later. You're offering your users a space to call their own, anything you put in there that offends any of them is an intrusion and leads the user to realize that the control of that space is entirely up to you and not them. When you've offered that space to them and they find out your offer is not what they thought it is, it is understandable they get annoyed.

The reason it's important to talk about the emotions is that the emotional calculations change when the space or message is a personal one as opposed to a public one. It's the difference between someone coming up to you on the bus and asking you if you've called your father and a poster on the side of the bus asking if you've called your father. When you put your message in someone's personal space, you don't get to just say "eh, it's probably only a small fraction" because you're specifically communicating with specific people.

It is important to understand the emotional components of software.

Re: Google reminds users to "Call Dad", makes users angry

#72
I think a big part of the issue is that a person's Gmail is treated as something much more personal than a TV ad or anything else. I think this is the piece that people blasting complaints as "too sensitive" are missing.

To have a unremovable "personal" message there as part of the interface feels weird to start with, but it feels even more like a violation if it's offensive (as with this case).

Re: Google reminds users to "Call Dad", makes users angry

#75
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I couldn't agree more on this. I don't always agree with everything Google does, but they provide some damned fine services for free. It's kind of hard to complain in light of that. Furthermore, every single comment that had been made disregarded both all of the users that hadn't lost their fathers, and more importantly all of the users such as yourself that had but are well-adjusted human beings that can deal with l…

Why exactly do people who have a great relationship with their father even need a reminder to call their father on Father's Day? Should we make a shallow & judgmental accusation that those who can't remember to call their father on Father's Day don't really love their father & are maladjusted "lusers"?

It's more of a reminder that today is actually father's day. This is not the same as not calling your father when you are fully aware it is father's day.

Re: Google reminds users to "Call Dad", makes users angry

#77
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why exactly do people who have a great relationship with their father even need a reminder to call their father on Father's Day? Should we make a shallow & judgmental accusation that those who can't remember to call their father on Father's Day don't really love their father & are maladjusted "lusers"?

It's more of a reminder that today is actually father's day. This is not the same as not calling your father when you are fully aware it is father's day.

The intention may have been innocent, but the execution was flawed. Make it obvious it's a generic reminder & give an easy way to turn it off. Instead it looked like it was a personal reminder that someone set themselves & there is no easy way to turn it off. Heck I am not even emotionally attached to it, but I really hate nag screens, so I'd rather shut the reminder off if I've already called dad or am not planning to.

Also my point was more aimed at 'joshuafcole' who seems to think grieving over the loss of a father or the loss of a childhood due to an abusive father means that you're not "well adjusted". It's an overly broad blanket statement that expects people to deal with life events like robots in exactly the same way. Events that it sounds like 'joshuafcole' never dealt with, so he probably doesn't have the best idea on the repercussions every scenario presents. So my retort was the overly-broad generalization that people who need a reminder to remember it's Father's Day must not be "well adjusted" or really love their father.

Re: Google reminds users to "Call Dad", makes users angry

#78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if I entered a privately owned local mall and saw such a sign? Neither of these would concern me in the slightest.

Presumably then, you're a reasonable person. I can assure you though, that if a shopping mall put up a sign like that they'd be flooded with complaints. Ultimately, it's a cost/benefit analysis for the company involved. Gay marriage is a contentious issue presently, Father's Day isn't really. You can find a subset of people who are offended by any implication of supporting any idea or cause. That's why I'm a little t…

> Gay marriage is a contentious issue presently, Father's Day isn't really.

That is not the issue. The problem isn't about being reminded that Father's Day exists. The problem is the undeletable, unsolicited imperative to each and every user that they "call Dad", irrespective of how valid that statement is for any arbitrary user.

Re: Google reminds users to "Call Dad", makes users angry

#80
post #69
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are completely valid appeals to emotion, because it is the emotional context of the reminder that makes it significant. If you don't understand why someone might feel bad after seeing that show up in their todo list, then you don't understand the problem. That said, as someone with pretty unhappy history with his father, I think what Google did here is fine. But really, not every emotional appeal is a fallacy.

When there is a perfectly good objective argument to be made (in this case, that undeletable reminders is a bad user experience), I do think an appeal to emotion is ineffective if not fallacious. In this case, the particular emotional appeal seems either insincere or unreasonable. Are people who have bad or deceased fathers offended by the very notion of Father's Day and the marketing around it? I doubt it, but even…

  > Are people who have bad or deceased fathers offended
  > by the very notion of Father's Day and the marketing
  > around it? 
There's a difference between Bob Barker saying "Remember to have your pets spayed or neutered" and Bob Barker coming to your house and saying, "Hey, asshole! Spay your dog already!" You are arguing that there is no difference. You seem to base it on the idea that if someone feels offended by Bob Barker talking at them specifically, then they need to be offended by Bob Barker broadcasting to a large group of people in general.

In the same way, the general idea of Father's Day is different than talking specifically to someone about their father. At that point, it is no longer impersonal (or easily dismissed as, "They are just talking to other people / people with happy father memories").

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