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Google reminds users to "Call Dad", makes users angry

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Re: Google reminds users to "Call Dad", makes users angry

#61

My father recently died and while things like these may trigger some slight pain, that's just life. You have to get the fuck over it. It's never worth accommodating the easily offended, especially on the Internet.

It's the difference between seeing something that annoys you and moving on and having something that someone else stuck into your reminder list that you can't delete. No one is complaining about Google's fathers day doodle, people are complaining that Google put in reminders they don't want into a space they view as theirs and there's no way to get rid of them. I'm glad you presumably had a good relationship with you…

This is on the money. It's a psychology-of-UI issue - where the Google front page feels like a public space, the logged-in side of Gmail feels more like a private area. This means that while a holiday Google Doodle sails by just fine, a reminder in Gmail feels very invasive.

Those answering "just get over it" are clearly not interested in building applications that people enjoy using.

Re: Google reminds users to "Call Dad", makes users angry

#62
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lost my father a couple of years ago. I like being reminded of him, personally. Today is a good day for that.

that is a great way of looking at it. people need to stop being so sensitive. same goes to fleitz and schrototo

> people need to stop being so sensitive

That's pretty callous. I wouldn't say that to someone who was abused by their father.

Re: Google reminds users to "Call Dad", makes users angry

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To play Devil's Advocate: What if you logged into Gmail and saw a reminder that said "Be sure to go vote for the bill supporting Gay Marriage Today" that you couldn't delete?

What if I entered a privately owned local mall and saw such a sign? Neither of these would concern me in the slightest.

Presumably then, you're a reasonable person. I can assure you though, that if a shopping mall put up a sign like that they'd be flooded with complaints.

Ultimately, it's a cost/benefit analysis for the company involved.

Gay marriage is a contentious issue presently, Father's Day isn't really. You can find a subset of people who are offended by any implication of supporting any idea or cause.

That's why I'm a little torn on this issue. You can object to the fact that Google is putting a non-deletable reminder into people's tasks. You can also object to the fact that Google is taking a Pro-Father's Day stance. I happen to think the first objection is more reasonable (but I can sympathize with the second one, even if I think it's not a really great example of a company offending people with a stance).

Re: Google reminds users to "Call Dad", makes users angry

#64
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the difference between seeing something that annoys you and moving on and having something that someone else stuck into your reminder list that you can't delete. No one is complaining about Google's fathers day doodle, people are complaining that Google put in reminders they don't want into a space they view as theirs and there's no way to get rid of them. I'm glad you presumably had a good relationship with you…

The issue you describe is legitimate: having an unsolicited reminder that can't be deleted is a bad choice, period. The parts about being offended because of a lousy or recently late father are unnecessary and unhelpful appeals to emotion.

Those are completely valid appeals to emotion, because it is the emotional context of the reminder that makes it significant. If you don't understand why someone might feel bad after seeing that show up in their todo list, then you don't understand the problem.

That said, as someone with pretty unhappy history with his father, I think what Google did here is fine. But really, not every emotional appeal is a fallacy.

Re: Google reminds users to "Call Dad", makes users angry

#65
There are a few sides to this one:

On the practical, implementation detail side of this, users should have been allowed to remove the item. I'm sure the reason that didn't happen is simply because of the way it was implemented, and implementing the item as something that was actually per-user would simply have pushed into the 'not happening' zone.

As regards, morals, sensibilities and where the hell 'right' is on the larger picture the answer is 'who knows?' - Personally, I think the fact that a slight prompting would have resulted in millions of tiny acts of goodness, and a few larger ones of users being upset, but there's no particular metric one can apply there. My intuition says the balance falls largely on the side of it being a net postitive for their users at large, and their families too.

As far as those offended go, I'm sort of reminded of the parallels with doctors and malpractice suits - hundreds of lives saved, helped, made more comfortable, and it' can take one slip-up to undo all of it. No, it's not a 'gtfover it', but it's not so much the message appearing as the inability to control it that led to a small slight being taken as an offense. Anger is almost always fear, and fear almost always a simple desire to not be hurt, and the inability to stop it continuing to prompt them - that likely just resonated with the aspects of whatever hurt in the first place, whether it was mortality, abuse or anything else.

No one meant any offense, and there was a person, and then people who thought they'd do something they thought would be good, and might make a few people happier (and possibly serve their employer's larger aims too).

They didn't do a bad thing. They did a good thing, badly.

Re: Google reminds users to "Call Dad", makes users angry

#68

Google reminds about Father's Day, yet it failed to remind me about a birthday over both SMS and email.

I noticed this recently as well, but only last week did I bother looking into it.

It seems the only way to fix this is to disable all of your notifications, save that, then go enable them again. Afterward, your notifications should work again.

Re: Google reminds users to "Call Dad", makes users angry

#69
post #64
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue you describe is legitimate: having an unsolicited reminder that can't be deleted is a bad choice, period. The parts about being offended because of a lousy or recently late father are unnecessary and unhelpful appeals to emotion.

Those are completely valid appeals to emotion, because it is the emotional context of the reminder that makes it significant. If you don't understand why someone might feel bad after seeing that show up in their todo list, then you don't understand the problem. That said, as someone with pretty unhappy history with his father, I think what Google did here is fine. But really, not every emotional appeal is a fallacy.

When there is a perfectly good objective argument to be made (in this case, that undeletable reminders is a bad user experience), I do think an appeal to emotion is ineffective if not fallacious.

In this case, the particular emotional appeal seems either insincere or unreasonable. Are people who have bad or deceased fathers offended by the very notion of Father's Day and the marketing around it? I doubt it, but even if they are, I think it would be entirely unreasonable, and rare enough for Google to risk or ignore.

Remember, anyone can choose at any time to be offended by anything, whether or not other people would consider them reasonable. People can also feign being offended to attempt to bring attention and credibility to an otherwise legitimate argument. Anyone who publishes any text on the Internet is liable to have someone claim the text to be offensive. I don't think any reasonable person would see this reminder and think that Google was mockingly telling them to call their abusive or dead father.

Re: Google reminds users to "Call Dad", makes users angry

#70
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the difference between seeing something that annoys you and moving on and having something that someone else stuck into your reminder list that you can't delete. No one is complaining about Google's fathers day doodle, people are complaining that Google put in reminders they don't want into a space they view as theirs and there's no way to get rid of them. I'm glad you presumably had a good relationship with you…

The issue you describe is legitimate: having an unsolicited reminder that can't be deleted is a bad choice, period. The parts about being offended because of a lousy or recently late father are unnecessary and unhelpful appeals to emotion.

Empathy is cool now, didn't you get the memo? It allows you to design better products. If you don't understand your users, your company is screwed.

I think discussion of the emotion of the situation is entirely appropriate.

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