Live data from Hacker News

A Critique of the Open Letter Calling for the Removal of RMS

meribold.org

151–160 of 274 posts

Re: A Critique of the Open Letter Calling for the Removal of RMS

#151
post #8

You know what I think is the craziest thing about this whole saga: Stallman’s email just accepts, as fact, that Minsky had sex with an underage girl. With one accusation and a dead defendant, why would anyone make this assumption without further corroboration? Did Stallman know it was true or was he just assuming it was?

Literally says so:

"Let’s presume that was true"

Re: A Critique of the Open Letter Calling for the Removal of RMS

#152

> The primary author of the open letter, Molly de Blanc, writes on her personal blog: > > There is no space to argue over whether a comment was transphobic – if it hurt a trans person then it is transphobic and it is unacceptable. Ah, postmodernism! Where the words are made up, and intent doesn't matter!

Molly de Blanc, whoever she is, is a bully. Plain and simple. These are textbook bully tactics practised by children in schools everywhere. You learn where people's weaknesses are and you prod. You learn where the boundaries are and stay just on the right side of authority to avoid being in trouble yourself.

Re: A Critique of the Open Letter Calling for the Removal of RMS

#153

I am afraid to put my name/email/github id in support of RMS because some mob in future will draw incorrect equivalence with whatever they want like "you support RMS then you are an X " where X seems to be a pedo. I am also wondering how many GNU/FSF haters are participating in just because they prefer MIT/BSD and see GNU as a cancer eating at their money making scheme.

> I am afraid to put my name/email/github id in support of RMS because some mob in future ... That's exactly what these totalitarian wokists aim for: to make people afraid to oppose them. The only way to stop it is not cave in to their absurd demands. Be strong, live without fear, and do the right thing.

And this is what has made the far right (and Trump) so attractive recently. The far right says "No, fuck you!" to pretty much everything the far left says, speaking power which is attractive. And in a country where you only have two political choices, it's always a devil's bargain because the policies of those parties become more and more polarized by their extremist elements.

Most people don't want the far left OR the far right, except they basically have no choice but to pick one, so they pick the one that feels the least like they're being trampled upon and then dutifully demonize the opposition. When both sides are peddling oppression, the people choose out of pain avoidance rather than positive, thoughtful action.

Re: A Critique of the Open Letter Calling for the Removal of RMS

#154

> RMS has (for some reason) tens of thousands of political notes on his website ready to be cherry-picked That would give me literally nightmares, I really don't understand people who write their opinions online (or sharing or liking of other peoples opinions) using their real name. It seems incredibly foolish. Even if you think you are woke enough, chances of getting cancelled in the future seem very high. I have th…

He clearly states that his opinions are his own, and do not represent GNU, FSF, or anything. The world there your private views might impact your work is a bad one, and everyone who values human rights and democracy must fight to make it safe to express your views.

Assume this: My open, but as a private person, opinion is that it's ok to steal money from my employer. Should I be CEO?

Re: A Critique of the Open Letter Calling for the Removal of RMS

#155
post #8

You know what I think is the craziest thing about this whole saga: Stallman’s email just accepts, as fact, that Minsky had sex with an underage girl. With one accusation and a dead defendant, why would anyone make this assumption without further corroboration? Did Stallman know it was true or was he just assuming it was?

Literally says so: "Let’s presume that was true"

Yes, but... why?

If you accuse my wife of stomping a puppy to death I would say “she didn’t do that” or “that is a baseless accusation without a shred of evidence, and would be deeply out of character for her.” I wouldn’t say “let’s assume that was true. The puppy must have been biting her.”

Re: A Critique of the Open Letter Calling for the Removal of RMS

#156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like I wrote in another comment, this would split the fact of "stealing" from "having a stolen object". Like "having the stolen object" does not harm anyone, the taking away is the harm done. I don't think this argument flies with anyone - it did not fly in kindergarten for me - and I'm not sure if RMS sees the world this way or it's only with child porn. To play devils advocate here: Taking GPL code into your produc…

Having a stolen physical object of mine means I don’t have it. You are literally continuing to deprive me of the property by merely having it. I can imagine reading an rms essay on how coming into my yard and taking my ladder without permission, using it without damage, and returning it before I noticed it missing imposed no harm upon me, so the taking of my property was not wrong, though the ongoing possession would…

If I copy your GPLed code you still have it.

Re: A Critique of the Open Letter Calling for the Removal of RMS

#157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are taking his arguments out of context. Everything out of context will sound strange.

Not really. Here's the context: This "child pornography" might be a photo of yourself or your lover that the two of you shared. Having a photo or drawing does not hurt anyone, so and if you or I think it is disgusting, that is no excuse for censorship. Having a photo of you out there, shared to people you did not intend or want to have it shared with can most definitely hurt someone. I can't find the quote right now,…

Even in the case that you bring up having the photo in your possession should not be illegal. Distributing it or producing it without the consent of the ADULT subject should be illegal. That's where the damage is being done. Every new set of eyes that sees the photo makes it worse.

In other words if:

1. someone already has a photo.

2. No one interacts with it besides the current owner

3. Nobody knows or will ever know about it but the current owner

Do you think there is damage being done? Right now I don't think so. I think all of the damage is done when material is produced and spread, and then spread again.

I dislike talking about this subject so I'm alright with disagreeing.

Re: A Critique of the Open Letter Calling for the Removal of RMS

#158
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So: I’ll leave you with three more bits of evidence that things are more complex than the open letter would have you believe: 1. A competing letter in support of RMS exists and has accumulated considerably more signatures than the letter condemning RMS. 2. In response someone created a Chrome extension that marks repositories owned by a signatory of this support letter with red text on GitHub. 3. The announcement of…

The trouble is that one generation ago we as people of the free world abhorred the idea of punishing individuals for their beliefs. Now that has changed. It's not the first time this happened, and it certainly won't be the last, but it's always ended badly in the past.

religious beliefs != informed opinions

Your boss or project maintainer in an open source project starts spreading conspiracy theories on the internet (Q, Flat Earth, whatever), to the point he becomes a public embarassment. Do you want to continue working with him?

Re: A Critique of the Open Letter Calling for the Removal of RMS

#159
post #141

> A competing letter in support of RMS exists and has accumulated considerably more signatures than the letter condemning RMS. > In response someone created a Chrome extension that marks repositories owned by a signatory of this support letter with red text on GitHub. This is incredible worrying. This is basically maintaining a repository of people with "incorrect" opinions. How long before such repositories are inte…

Frankly, I wish there was a list of people using that Chrome extension, so they could face the same treatment they are giving others. Ultimately I think things like that extension will do more to drive people to sign the letter in support of RMS than deter people, because the signal it sends is to me far worse than anything RMS has been accused of.

[deleted]

Re: A Critique of the Open Letter Calling for the Removal of RMS

#160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having a stolen physical object of mine means I don’t have it. You are literally continuing to deprive me of the property by merely having it. I can imagine reading an rms essay on how coming into my yard and taking my ladder without permission, using it without damage, and returning it before I noticed it missing imposed no harm upon me, so the taking of my property was not wrong, though the ongoing possession would…

If I copy your GPLed code you still have it.

You added that part afterward in an edit and I was still replying to that part, but you’re right and that’s what rms is encouraging: that we both have the code and both have the freedom to learn, modify, and tinker on it as does anyone we convey the code to.
Post reply on HN