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A Critique of the Open Letter Calling for the Removal of RMS

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Re: A Critique of the Open Letter Calling for the Removal of RMS

#91

Post by dvfjsdhgfv »

maweki wrote: post #53
henrikschroder wrote: post #32

> The primary author of the open letter, Molly de Blanc, writes on her personal blog: > > There is no space to argue over whether a comment was transphobic – if it hurt a trans person then it is transphobic and it is unacceptable. Ah, postmodernism! Where the words are made up, and intent doesn't matter!

In a sphere where we usually choose our names and expect other people to use them, instead of what's written in some official document, I don't see how chosen pronouns are any different. Honestly, it's not hard to call people what they want to be called. You might feel the line between innocent mistake and maliciousness has not been crossed. Other people do disagree.

> Honestly, it's not hard to call people what they want to be called.

That's true and RMS will gladly call you using any pronouns you choose: https://libreboot.org/news/rms.html#rms-is-not-transphobic

Re: A Critique of the Open Letter Calling for the Removal of RMS

#92

Post by pydry »

simion314 wrote: post #36

I am afraid to put my name/email/github id in support of RMS because some mob in future will draw incorrect equivalence with whatever they want like "you support RMS then you are an X " where X seems to be a pedo. I am also wondering how many GNU/FSF haters are participating in just because they prefer MIT/BSD and see GNU as a cancer eating at their money making scheme.

That's pretty much the whole point of astroturfing this mob.

If RMS declared his undying love for MIT/BSD tomorrow the instigators would likely lose all interest in RMS's views on Minsky and their outrage-puppets would abruptly move on to a different scandal.

Re: A Critique of the Open Letter Calling for the Removal of RMS

#93

Post by Andrew_nenakhov »

lyu07282 wrote: post #41

> RMS has (for some reason) tens of thousands of political notes on his website ready to be cherry-picked That would give me literally nightmares, I really don't understand people who write their opinions online (or sharing or liking of other peoples opinions) using their real name. It seems incredibly foolish. Even if you think you are woke enough, chances of getting cancelled in the future seem very high. I have th…

He clearly states that his opinions are his own, and do not represent GNU, FSF, or anything.

The world there your private views might impact your work is a bad one, and everyone who values human rights and democracy must fight to make it safe to express your views.

Re: A Critique of the Open Letter Calling for the Removal of RMS

#94

Post by KingOfCoders »

junon wrote: post #68
maweki wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a sphere where we usually choose our names and expect other people to use them, instead of what's written in some official document, I don't see how chosen pronouns are any different. Honestly, it's not hard to call people what they want to be called. You might feel the line between innocent mistake and maliciousness has not been crossed. Other people do disagree.

Because pronouns are ingrained into our language centers; we automatically and subconsciously classify people based on physical appearance and derive pronouns from that. For better or worse, it's part of our programming. Names, however, are not. We've learned names are not connected to any physical trait, and thus we process and store them differently. Expecting the entirety of humanity to simply "unlearn" language i…

Exactly.

Well ... no. People are called Baker because some ancestor was a baker. Then over time the link from the name to the occupation got lost.

Just as we might have "derive[d] pronouns from that" but are currently on the same way as with "Baker" - removing the word from it's physical beginnings.

Then in the end words are a tool and not a thing by their own - as evidenced that you can hardly read a 500 year old text - including your pronouns, that were different back then.

If it helps - at least one party - communication to use different/new pronouns, this is where language will go.

Re: A Critique of the Open Letter Calling for the Removal of RMS

#95

Post by NovemberWhiskey »

Toutouxc wrote: post #34
yur3i__ wrote: post #4

As much as I like rms, I find it very difficult to move past his comments on child pornography[1]. [1] https://stallman.org/notes/2011-mar-jun.html#4_June_2011_(Bo...

I don't find it difficult at all, because the way he sees it, what he says is strictly logically true. Possession of CP material does not hurt anyone. The fact that people who want to possess (and are willing to pay for) CP material are a huge reason for CP material to be created by whatever means available (that's the part that hurts people) seems to be lost on him. His ideas on free software and freedom in general…

I would really like to understand his opinion on accessory-after-the-fact and other crimes like dealing in stolen property.

It would illuminate whether he’s actually a CP apologist or merely a poor legal philosopher who has bad judgment on the subject matter of his thought experiments.

Re: A Critique of the Open Letter Calling for the Removal of RMS

#96

Post by [deleted] »

simion314 wrote: post #36

I am afraid to put my name/email/github id in support of RMS because some mob in future will draw incorrect equivalence with whatever they want like "you support RMS then you are an X " where X seems to be a pedo. I am also wondering how many GNU/FSF haters are participating in just because they prefer MIT/BSD and see GNU as a cancer eating at their money making scheme.

[deleted]

Re: A Critique of the Open Letter Calling for the Removal of RMS

#97

Post by blub »

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #72
tomxor wrote: post #33

At this point I think the most important thing is that mob rule is shown to not be the way. I don't know RMS, I don't even know much about RMS... but I have heard enough to know he's not the intolerant idiot he's been made out to be in these hateful letters. There are possibly other very reasonable criticisms for him being removed from his position, but the mob made that impossible to discuss now due to the overwhelm…

“I know nothing about the target, but he must be innocent!”

Come on Taze, put some effort into it: "I don't know anything about the target, but this trial by public opinion is fundamentally unfair and shouldn't be used to decide anything".

Re: A Critique of the Open Letter Calling for the Removal of RMS

#98

Post by DarkCrusader2 »

> A competing letter in support of RMS exists and has accumulated considerably more signatures than the letter condemning RMS.

> In response someone created a Chrome extension that marks repositories owned by a signatory of this support letter with red text on GitHub.

This is incredible worrying. This is basically maintaining a repository of people with "incorrect" opinions. How long before such repositories are integrated in HR systems, tied to you identity for subscriptions/memberships. [1] You have to carry a tag of being not progressive enough across the internet?

[1] https://twitter.com/kmlefranc/status/1221869659139366912

Re: A Critique of the Open Letter Calling for the Removal of RMS

#100

Post by simion314 »

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #72
tomxor wrote: post #33

At this point I think the most important thing is that mob rule is shown to not be the way. I don't know RMS, I don't even know much about RMS... but I have heard enough to know he's not the intolerant idiot he's been made out to be in these hateful letters. There are possibly other very reasonable criticisms for him being removed from his position, but the mob made that impossible to discuss now due to the overwhelm…

“I know nothing about the target, but he must be innocent!”

RMS might be a serial killer or pedo but until this is proven by the authorities what a sane person can conclude is that there is no actual evidence for such accusations, just some people with a grudge on RMS remembering 20 years old stories of RMS committing the crime of making them uncomfortable.

Or some argue that RMS did no crime but is just not good for PR reasons so we should put someone more cool on the top, someone that speacks using political language.

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