I hope work from home continues • Hacker News Board

Re: I hope work from home continues

#461

Post by nobody865215698 » Tue, Apr 06, 2021, 5:37 PM UTC

jonnycomputer wrote: post #423

kataklasm wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I created an account solely to reply here. What? How did you get around to such an explicit and unfounded gate-keeping of cycling? Cycling is only 'good' if it has the purpose of commute? Cycling is only 'good' if you have a cheap bicycle? Sorry to be this direct, but this is utter nonsense! I do not have an expensive SUV at home, I don't even own a driver's license, and I don't own a super expensive bike either, but…

Welcome to HN. In a post complaining about gate-keeping in cycling--that leisure cycling reinforces the idea that there is only kind of cycling that is totally above board, not sketchy--I get criticized for gate keeping. Maybe instead, gear head cyclists should introspect more on their hobby and how it reinforces class barriers.

Is it possible that maybe, just maybe, people dress in spandex to ride because that's what they've found works best for them, and not because they want to make you feel insecure about your your bike or your clothing or that you should get off the road? What you're saying is analogous to saying that because there are people who can't afford nice clothes you should dress as cheaply as possible, otherwise someone might feel that you're gatekeeping being dressed out in public.

As a fairly experienced road cyclist, I honestly don't care in the least what people ride or how they dress, I only care that they don't act stupid things around me. At the most I might compliment someone on their speed and that's about it.

Re: I hope work from home continues

#462

Post by blunte » Tue, Apr 06, 2021, 5:38 PM UTC

UnpossibleJim wrote: post #347

mumblemumble wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have a hard time wrapping my head around why companies are mandating 100% return to office. Hot take: There's a whole way of communicating and handling team organization that grew up around 20th century business management culture, and it just doesn't work well with remote teams. Methods that do work well with remote teams, though, don't work well with traditional deeply hierarchical management structures. At bes…

LOL, this might be one of the biggest truths I've ever read on HN. An expanded, micromanagement style of leadership just isn't necessary in a remote style office. Trust in your employees and a flatter structure, with fewer executives and more people who produce is ideal for a remote office business style. This is a direct contrast to the mantra of the 80's, 90's and 2000's logic of grind it out for as short a time as…

This is a depressingly accurate assessment of the last 30 years.

The only hope I hold is that people with shared creative interests will eventually prevail.

The pessimist in me also considers that the allowed monopolies will then buy up those creative successes.

Re: I hope work from home continues

#463

Post by BlargMcLarg » Tue, Apr 06, 2021, 5:38 PM UTC

novok wrote: post #410

mumblemumble wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have a hard time wrapping my head around why companies are mandating 100% return to office. Hot take: There's a whole way of communicating and handling team organization that grew up around 20th century business management culture, and it just doesn't work well with remote teams. Methods that do work well with remote teams, though, don't work well with traditional deeply hierarchical management structures. At bes…

If we didn't have managers, all the planning, negotiating, syncing, communication & meetings stuff overflows into the engineers themselves, who might get grumpy at doing something they really typically do not enjoy, which is management work. If you remove the managers, your staff engineers quickly start becoming defacto managers. PM work, management work and all of that is work, and someone has to do the work and if…

If we remove and automate away as much red tape as possible, is the remainder really that bad we still need a dedicated manager over a hybrid? Will somebody of the team not feel the urge or the will to pick it up instead?

Do we still need a manager who has power over the developers and partially decides which jobs exist, giving them not only an incentive to create extra work, but have a trump card on anyone who would call out their BS?

Do we truly need all this manual syncing and negotiating? Or has part of the corporate machine become addicted to all this red tape so much, they believe it is not only a necessity, but an insult to the individuals participating if the red tape is removed in its entirety?

Frankly, as much as I despise management work, I have a hard time buying the argument it really would be as terrible as it is now once you get rid of that red tape. Hybrid roles don't have an incentive to inflate the amount of red tape: they can go back to doing the other side of their role instead, and have an incentive to remove any existing red tape if it becomes suffocating.

Re: I hope work from home continues

#464

Post by npsimons » Tue, Apr 06, 2021, 5:39 PM UTC

jonnycomputer wrote: post #451

npsimons wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly! You can go both ways with this: at my house, I have exercise equipment, up to and including a barbell and plates. If I feel like grinding out some sets real quick, I can. There is absolutely no comparison to working in an office.

I have gym weights near my desk, and do curls etc. a few times a day; wouldn't do that in the office (maybe I would if I had a private office)

Chin up bar, dumb bells, etc, etc. Just too much to have at an office.

And the mention of the kitchen in the post is spot on too - it's just way too convenient to have my full kitchen at home for a quick smoothie. Some projects at my job don't even have a refrigerator for Pete's sake!

Re: I hope work from home continues

#465

Post by pmontra » Tue, Apr 06, 2021, 5:40 PM UTC

fiftyfifty wrote: post #234

protonimitate wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a hard time wrapping my head around why companies are mandating 100% return to office. Cost issues aside, I've always maintained that the absolute best experience is a hybrid/flexible schedule and location policy. I'm currently full time remote (I'm on the East Coast working for a West Coast company). My previous company had its main office in my current city, but allowed a super flexible choose-where-you-work…

The company I work for actually suggested getting rid of our office and going 100% remote for our group. We actually voted on whether to keep leasing it after Covid or not. We voted to keep it as we generally like our office and it's nice to have a place to meet face to face sometimes. Since we voted to keep it corporate has told us we have to come in at least 3 days a week after Covid. So for us it's less an issue o…

Wouldn't be wiser to get rid of the original office and rent some much smaller space, maybe only meeting rooms?

Re: I hope work from home continues

#466

Post by Johnny555 » Tue, Apr 06, 2021, 5:40 PM UTC

blunte wrote: post #64

Wow, the author has a pretty miserable company :(. That said, I share most of the opinions even though I quite like the office environment of my company. I abso-fking-love choosing where I work (and to some degree, when). Being able to take my laptop and go sit under a canopy in my back yard when the weather is nice, seeing my rabbits hopping around the yard, my cats avoiding the aggressive she-rabbit, hearing the bi…

As I begin to form my own company, one of my priorities is to allow my employees to have at least some of their time completely at their own discretion

The only way to really give employees freedom to work from anywhere completely at their own discretion is to let them work full-time remote.

If you require any face time at the office at all, then they have to live within commuting distance, or at least within flying distance.

An employee may prefer to work from Bali, but if he has to go into the office twice a month, he can't (reasonably) do that.

Re: I hope work from home continues

#467

Post by folkrav » Tue, Apr 06, 2021, 5:40 PM UTC

patrickserrano wrote: post #407

folkrav wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In my remote experience, I definitely don't talk to my colleagues that much. Maybe you should, then. I speak to my colleagues at the very least 30 minutes to 1h a day, and work full remote. > But when you're trying to build a small company, one approach is to make it feel like a family. An approach I immensely dislike. IMHO it's a huge waste of time to pretend like most employees aren't just there to make a living.…

I always find this position to be really interesting because as an adult I've had a really hard time making new friends. So working in an environment that values and supports employees creating friendships that extend outside of the office has been a huge benefit for me.

Maybe our definition of what counts as a friend differ? I don't really consider work acquaintances (some of those I loved working with and would do again in a heartbeat if the occasion presented itself) "friends".

A friend is someone I feel I can confide in and would not hesitate to call if I ever needed help with something personal. I can count those on a single hand, and in my case, none of those came from work, and that kind of deeply rooted relationship definitely wouldn't come from a company or team-wide organized retreat.

Re: I hope work from home continues

#468

Post by veilrap » Tue, Apr 06, 2021, 5:42 PM UTC

onion2k wrote: post #223

JackFr wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have a hard time wrapping my head around why companies are mandating 100% return to office Informal communication, informal collaboration, a culture of apprenticeship. To the extent that the organization values these they are all served much better in person than remote. All companies and all people are different. There isn't a one size fits all. But it's not like there are no benefits to in person.

Informal communication, informal collaboration, a culture of apprenticeship. To the extent that the organization values these they are all served much better in person than remote. This raises two obvious questions; - Were those things definitely happening in a way that actually benefits the company, or were people simply assuming they're happening? - Why can't those things continue to happen in an environment where…

Ad hoc, accidental communication simply doesn't happen in remote work environments.

Coffee breaks are a shockingly productive element that simply work better in person, at least in my experience (and this seems to be a common sentiment at my software company).

In-person conversations don't have technical difficulties, there's much better engagement which allows people to better read the audience and adapt presentations/design conversations appropriately.

Surveys among colleagues seem to agree -- hybrid seems good, remote only simply is not as productive nor enjoyable.

Re: I hope work from home continues

#469

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Apr 06, 2021, 5:42 PM UTC

munificent wrote: post #447

vp8989 wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Engineering culture should be disseminated via documents rather than oral lore. If it's disseminated via oral lore it's expensive to change and is often misinterpreted across a large enough org. A silent killer of engineering orgs is bad practices that stick around because that's the way it's always been done. No one knows why because it wasn't written down. The only way to fix that is for someone high enough to prov…

> Engineering culture should be disseminated via documents rather than oral lore. I'm always startled by comments like this because it's so counter to how I understand humanity. We are social mammals . No amount of good grammar and excellent font choice can substitute for sharing the same physical space together, an act that has been core to what it means to be human literally since we first speciated. Yeah, writing…

[deleted]

Re: I hope work from home continues

#470

Post by Johnny555 » Tue, Apr 06, 2021, 5:43 PM UTC

decafninja wrote: post #321

kibleopard wrote: post #293

A pattern I notice (not necessarily directly related to this article) is that the people who loudly exclaim “I don’t want to go back to the office ever again!” are usually older folks who: > have a house > have a family As a 20-something who lives alone in an apartment, I don’t get the luxury of having a nice backyard to go work in (like someone mentioned doing in another comment thread here). I don’t get the luxury…

I'm a 30-something and married, so my situation isn't completely analogous to yours. But we have no kids and live in a pretty tiny 1br apartment with no backyard or other private outdoor space or even a balcony. Before covid we didn't really care, but covid makes us yearn for bigger, detached housing. My home "office" is a corner of our tiny bedroom (that said, my home office setup is still vastly superior to my work…

Before covid we didn't really care, but covid makes us yearn for bigger, detached housing

Wouldn't full time WFH make that easier to do? Presumably you live in a small one bedroom apartment because it's within commute distance of work. If your employer stuck with WFH, then you could move to a house in a small town, probably for less money than you're paying for the apartment.