I hope work from home continues • Hacker News Board

Re: I hope work from home continues

#321

Post by decafninja » Tue, Apr 06, 2021, 4:29 PM UTC

kibleopard wrote: post #293

A pattern I notice (not necessarily directly related to this article) is that the people who loudly exclaim “I don’t want to go back to the office ever again!” are usually older folks who: > have a house > have a family As a 20-something who lives alone in an apartment, I don’t get the luxury of having a nice backyard to go work in (like someone mentioned doing in another comment thread here). I don’t get the luxury…

I'm a 30-something and married, so my situation isn't completely analogous to yours. But we have no kids and live in a pretty tiny 1br apartment with no backyard or other private outdoor space or even a balcony. Before covid we didn't really care, but covid makes us yearn for bigger, detached housing.

My home "office" is a corner of our tiny bedroom (that said, my home office setup is still vastly superior to my work office setup).

That said, I still vastly prefer WFH. I don't have to waste time on a miserable commute, and my office environment is just plain old dreary, depressing - probably the case for most offices for "old school" companies (vs. hot and hip Silicon Valley style tech companies). I've mentioned this in other posts, but I can imagine being happier at the office if the environment wasn't so depressing and dystopian.

Re: I hope work from home continues

#322

Post by thinkharderdev » Tue, Apr 06, 2021, 4:29 PM UTC

augusto-moura wrote: post #205

nonameiguess wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't mistake pandemic conditions for forever. There is no reason you need to stay permanently isolated and can't get social needs filled somewhere other than an office.

Don't mistake the post pandemic conditions for granted. Even after isolation working alone in a small apartment can be miserable, I find myself in the same situation, getting out for a bar or club in non working hours is not the same as working in a office. There are some simple idiotic social needs like small talk, or throw some jokes or even curse out loud in frustration that are difficult to get right outside the…

Isn't analyzing case-by-case exactly what remote work is though? Obviously some people really like working at home in isolation and some people like the social aspects of being in an office. But with a remote-first company you have the option. If you want to work at home you obviously can and if you want a more social work environment then you can rent a co-working space (hopefully your company could even foot the bill with all the money they are saving on office rent) or co-work with a group of friends, etc.

I think a lot of people who have worked remotely for the first time due to COVID have a misleading impression of what remote work is. In normal times you have ample options to be able to work in an environment with other people if that's what you want. You also have the option to spend the time you save on commuting doing other non-work social activities.

Re: I hope work from home continues

#323

Post by dsiegel2275 » Tue, Apr 06, 2021, 4:29 PM UTC

Over my lunch break today I threw a pork shoulder on my smoker. It will be ready at dinner time, just as I finish work.

Yeah. I'm never going back to an office.

Re: I hope work from home continues

#324

Post by bkovacev » Tue, Apr 06, 2021, 4:29 PM UTC

armandososa wrote: post #286

ITT: Everybody saying how awful OP's workplace is. But ~10mins of commuting? That's heaven! If I had to commute to a local company it would take me 90mins in a good day, or rent a place for half the salary such local company would be paying me. I've been working remotely for 14 years now and I'm never coming back. Ever.

I believe you have misread it - the commute is an hour +/- 10 minutes.

Re: I hope work from home continues

#325

Post by datavirtue » Tue, Apr 06, 2021, 4:30 PM UTC

"Have to deal with random coworkers coming to my desk/cornering me at the urinal and blabbing incessantly about their divorce/kids/wife's boyfriend/vet bill, this was a regular occurrence in person and has happened exactly once via teams since work from home started."

This is real everywhere...and not healthy on many levels.

Re: I hope work from home continues

#326

Post by NationalPark » Tue, Apr 06, 2021, 4:30 PM UTC

mylons wrote: post #16

benbristow wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lucky you. I live in a top-floor apartment so don't have the luxury of a garden and I'm isolated by myself as I live alone. It's not the same for everyone.

That’s fine. Don’t make me come back to the office because you have undesirable accommodations.

Surely this works both ways though? Remote workers always bring an implied expectation that their coworkers will do a certain amount of extra work in order to bridge the larger communication boundary. This means more documentation, more aggressive status tracking, more time spent on communication (zoom calls and slack simply aren't as high fidelity as in person communication - body language is important), more independent investigation as the activation energy of a remote call is higher, etc.

Now, many of those things are probably good for the business anyway, but they are nevertheless obligations that remote workers force on their colleagues in order to achieve that cleaner, "API-like" working relationship that remote workers often need to succeed independently.

It's even more stressful if some employees are gelling well and some aren't. Many remote workers feel they should be treated like contractors but given fuzzier expectations like salaried workers - I've seen this misalignment of expectations about culture destroy teams, and in an office culture transitioning from full time in office to partially remote, all of this is fundamentally caused by the "benefits" that the remote workers are receiving at the cost of their colleagues. It's absolutely not a win-win.

Re: I hope work from home continues

#327

Post by nitrogen » Tue, Apr 06, 2021, 4:30 PM UTC

blunte wrote: post #240

ramphastidae wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, to be clear, your plan is no different than all the other crappy companies people complain about: replace real process and professional management with calling yourself a family, “perks” the employees already pay for through reduced salary like food, and taking advantage of young, cheap labor that doesn’t know any better than to be exploited?

Is that what you read? No, I am creating the kind of company I would have loved to work for. Salary is fine, but I know firsthand that if there is good free food, I will stay and work through lunch (or at least talk with my colleagues about work challenges while eating the nice food). Look, if someone is not happy with their work, free food or free trips is only going to hold them in place for a short while. They abs…

When fun and camaraderie happens naturally on a project, it's really amazing to be a part of. When an org tries to force "fun", it's awful.

I think you are dreaming of the first kind, and everyone against you in this thread is having nightmares about the second.

But I've also learned something about dealing with "corporate BS" -- if it's at least reasonably well intentioned, one can still decide to make the most of it instead of fighting everything and killing everyone else's motivation.

Re: I hope work from home continues

#328

Post by falcolas » Tue, Apr 06, 2021, 4:31 PM UTC

kibleopard wrote: post #293

A pattern I notice (not necessarily directly related to this article) is that the people who loudly exclaim “I don’t want to go back to the office ever again!” are usually older folks who: > have a house > have a family As a 20-something who lives alone in an apartment, I don’t get the luxury of having a nice backyard to go work in (like someone mentioned doing in another comment thread here). I don’t get the luxury…

> WFH disproportionately is worse for early in career people

Based off working with a bunch of younger co-workers (the average age of my co-workers is in the early/mid 20's) I'd say it's worse for people whose primary source of social interaction is work. They didn't have social contacts they could lean on outside of work.

Without the office, they were alone.

Those with spouses, or friends outside of the office, all did pretty well, and aren't clamoring to go back to the office.

Personally, I have a spouse and a number of friends who I continued to interact with outside of the office. This saw me through the coronavirus better than any house or a yard could have.

Re: I hope work from home continues

#329

Post by ryanmercer » Tue, Apr 06, 2021, 4:31 PM UTC

walterlb wrote: post #107

I have my own list of pros and cons about returning to the office, but I had completely forgotten about the dreaded urinal conversation.

I think everyone should be made to watch "Male Restroom Etiquette" before returning to offices https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzO1mCAVyMw

Re: I hope work from home continues

#330

Post by munificent » Tue, Apr 06, 2021, 4:32 PM UTC

trentnix wrote: post #182

protonimitate wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a hard time wrapping my head around why companies are mandating 100% return to office. Cost issues aside, I've always maintained that the absolute best experience is a hybrid/flexible schedule and location policy. I'm currently full time remote (I'm on the East Coast working for a West Coast company). My previous company had its main office in my current city, but allowed a super flexible choose-where-you-work…

I have a hard time wrapping my head around why companies are mandating 100% return to office. I doubt it lasts, at least in software. Talented people are going to have lots of remote options making it harder to find good people willing to show up for daily cubicle warfare. I was someone who preferred to be in the office every day prior to the pandemic. But after adjusting, I really, really like working from home. Tru…

> Talented people are going to have lots of remote options making it harder to find good people willing to show up for daily cubicle warfare.

I worry a lot about how this cuts the bottom rungs off the ladder for junior developers. Senior developers can be very productive without frequent access to in-person help, and are valuable enough that they can get work-from-home if they want. But junior developers have more frequent questions, need to absorb software engineering culture, and need to have more work and task structure created for them. Remote work is really hard for them.