Lotta people in this thread are quick to defend a corporation that has no vested interest in them other than a labor vehicle.
Check yourselves.
Amazon illegally fired activist workers, Labor Board finds
371–380 of 416 posts
Re: Amazon illegally fired activist workers, Labor Board finds
#372Earlier quoted context omitted.
Would the labor board have provided such a convenient ruling if it were right leaning political activists masquerading as employees fighting for employee rights? For that matter why are the actions of political activists protected at all? From past discussions on HN, my recollection is that these two were not fighting for labor rights or wages or conditions. They were climate change activists that would spam employee…
The labor board may well have done nothing if Amazon had fired them for activism. But they fired them once they did start bringing up labor issues: > Amazon has fired two employees and asked a third not to return to work, after the group organized a virtual event for warehouse employees to speak to tech workers at the company about its workplace conditions and coronavirus response. > The two employees who were fired…
Yeah but that's pretty meaningless, because left wing activists have figured out that there's no specific requirements on what a union is meant to achieve, therefore literally any activism can be connected to "agitating to form a union" in some vague way and instantly become not only legally protected, but will rope in government agencies that are themselves captured by left wing activists.
This is how you get stuff like Kickstarter being "unionized" to force management to keep online violent anti-conservative campaigns that were violating the ToS. It's got nothing to do with conventional labor protection of the sort unions were historically meant for. The only similarity is that it's about capturing institutions from the inside to take them over without having to actually buy the firm or get into management directly, except you don't even have to strike or win an employee vote. You just make yourself unfireable and spend 100% of your work time on self-aggrandizing political activism.
If this stuff keeps up the already bad reputation of unions in the USA will get drastically worse, as they won't even have the classical workers rights arguments to fall back on.
Re: Amazon illegally fired activist workers, Labor Board finds
#373Earlier quoted context omitted.
Makes you wonder if THIS is what's behind all the pushes for diversity
Why do people think the promotion of diversity is part of some nefarious global plot?
They don't think it's an explicit plot, obviously. They think it's global because it mostly is (within the Anglosphere at least), and nefarious because its stated objectives do not align with the actions people in that 'movement' take.
For instance, diversity programs are invariably justified by reference to needing a diversity of perspectives or ideas. But the resulting personnel policies are never about ideas, they're always about gender and skin colour. In fact the typical diversity program often results in hiring lots of ideologically homogenous people.
That disparity between claimed goals and actual goals invariably makes it appear like there's some sort of hidden agenda at work.
Re: Amazon illegally fired activist workers, Labor Board finds
#374I've seen a few comments along the lines of "the best workers will go if they see union people treated like that".
I find that hard to believe, but fortunately there's a way to test that! Just start your own companies and make them union-friendly from the start. All those union-friendly star performers will flock to your company and help it succeed! Win Win! Easy!
Re: Amazon illegally fired activist workers, Labor Board finds
#375Earlier quoted context omitted.
> "British union leaders simply play workers against management for their own gain, then leave both workers and management worse off, but workers get the worst of it." Again, you're buying into nonsense anti-union propaganda.
Again, you're buying into nonsense anti-union propaganda. I'm not buying into anything. I see Germany with strong unions and a strong industrial sector and I want that here. Just there is something in the British union movement that makes it destructive instead.
The point I'm making is that you're wrong to think that the "British union movement [.. is] destructive", in actual fact the unions have been unfairly scapegoated and villainised for decades leading some people to believe what you believe.
Of course, maybe you're not buying into the propaganda but actually purposefully spreading it. Or maybe my opinions are wrong, but I obviously don't believe that to be the case.
I'm afraid I can't be much more useful in my argument, I've met and discussed with many British trade union leaders and representatives, as well as many managers who didn't enjoy having to deal with unions and I have a very strong opinion that you're wrong without really having a thought about how to change your mind other than suggesting learning more about the subject. If you'd be interested I'd be happy to text a friend and ask if they have a recommendation for a single book to read about it, or maybe your mind is already made up.
Re: Amazon illegally fired activist workers, Labor Board finds
#376Earlier quoted context omitted.
We don't have to imagine. This very article is about employees who were illegally fired for not kowtowing to the right opinions. These politics do control your job, whether you want them to or not.
No, because I don't lie about peeing in a bottle at my job and make trouble. But if there was a union there'd be a never ending parade of shit I'd have to watch out for. Like having to pretend that we have to piss in bottles rather than using the washroom or else having my stuff vandalized and maybe being beaten in the parking lot. Unions use lies and violence to get their way, been there, had enough of that. What wa…
Isn't it a bit of a stretch to build the definition of what a union is by using anecdotes as building blocks? One could argue the same for pretty much any other organized group (companies, governments, ...) yet we don't define their function by individual actions.
In summary: People don't usually form unions to beat others in parking lots, you know.
Re: Amazon illegally fired activist workers, Labor Board finds
#377Sure Amazon might not like them for their advocacy, but if they really did unapologetically break internal policies then I think Amazon's firing them is valid. Assuming they did leak private company information or try to organize a massive social gathering during the pandemic, the response was valid. They were probably targets, but as a target you shouldn't be breaking rules at work.
I'm on the outside here so I might be misreading, but are these internal policies explicitly written into their contracts, or are they secret, internal rules that Amazon unilaterally imposes after you're hired?
It sounds like they're breaking rules they never agreed to. Is it legal for Amazon to impose rules like that? Is this common across the industry? How do companies get away with it, is it just a US thing?
Re: Amazon illegally fired activist workers, Labor Board finds
#378Sure Amazon might not like them for their advocacy, but if they really did unapologetically break internal policies then I think Amazon's firing them is valid. Assuming they did leak private company information or try to organize a massive social gathering during the pandemic, the response was valid. They were probably targets, but as a target you shouldn't be breaking rules at work.
> unapologetically break internal policies I mean, Amazon has an internal policy that you are not allowed to collaborate on any games related projects with anyone who is not also an Amazon employee. Did you go to a game jam? You've just unapologetically broken internal policies. It's absolutely the case that Amazon can construct policies that are never enforced and easy to break so they have something they can fall b…
Tht's insane. Is that rule in the contract, or is it something that's imposed after employees are hired? (Or is it like, "you agree to adhere to all Amazon internal policies"? Is that even legal to begin with?)
I don't understand how they can enforce something like that without it being an explicit agreement in the contract. Is it the case that they are explicit clauses, but people don't negotiate them out?
Re: Amazon illegally fired activist workers, Labor Board finds
#379Earlier quoted context omitted.
I reject your absolutist ideology. If it's a forced choice of with your or against you, then you've asked for against. Edit: With them or they'll do anything from downvote you to set your car on fire. This is why people don't believe you, or support you. Look at the modern intellectual arguing the equivalent of Wickard v Filburn. Anti-union would be going out of my way to lobby my government to forbid unions. Neutral…
I would posit that you aren't rejecting any ideology, you are being presented with the fact even inaction is a political choice, and that seems to upset you. That's okay, there are a lot of facts about reality that upset me, too! Unfortunately facts don't care about our feelings, and no amount of sulking about it will change the fact that so called union neutrality is an anti-union position. Not only is it anti-union…
What you are describing is bullying, plain and simple. Similar to the other commenter I’ve seen unions use the same tactics as well.
Re: Amazon illegally fired activist workers, Labor Board finds
#380Earlier quoted context omitted.
Maybe some will balk, but not all. There is probably enough overlap between "talented devs and designers" and "people who think unions are bad and/or don't care" that it won't affect their hiring pipeline. That said, I think highly-paid tech contributors do have the most leverage out of any other labor market participant right now. The more of us that don't want to work for anti-union companies, the better.
The two unions I’ve worked for before getting a job in tech were terrible. At one I was physically threatened with violence for being too productive and the other allocated work times/roles by seniority instead of ability. If you happened to not be friends with the union president, then you better really enjoy cleaning the bathrooms. You seem to be under the impression that unions are always good and that certainly i…
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