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FDA approves new ADHD drug for children

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Re: FDA approves new ADHD drug for children

#181

Post by vbsteven »

zaarn wrote: post #136
jasonkester wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you reconcile this with the observation that seemingly every single child in the United States is diagnosed with this condition and prescribed drugs to treat it? Watching from Europe, where roughly nobody is diagnosed with it nor prescribed drugs to treat it, I’m always baffled, fascinated and horrified watching Americans talk about it.

I've heard this so often, even from family. "It sounds like things everybody has to deal with". It's infinitely more difficult with ADHD. I use phone apps to remind myself of everyday things and track my shopping lists. This may sound normal but it's a coping strategy and when it's gone I am unable to function as a normal human being. I cannot go shopping without a shopping list because I will grab things I think I n…

As a 33yo in Europe who got diagnosed and prescribed medication 2 months ago I can attest that it is possible to get a prescription as an adult.

I just started working again (on medication) after a 6month work break and it is so refreshing to be able to focus on work for the full 8 hours in a work day.

Like you said, the medication doesn't really help with all the "other" stuff that comes with ADHD. (forgetting to brush your teeth is a real struggle) but at least it helps me to be productive and have a stable income again.

Re: FDA approves new ADHD drug for children

#182

Post by h0l0cube »

watwut wrote: post #162
h0l0cube wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do lower reading comprehension, stunted long and short term memory, and a constantly wandering mind also factor in there? I was a precocious talker and reader, and in many ways a 'gifted' child, but I always struggled to comprehend reading material, or remain engaged with what a teacher was saying. These learning difficulties pretty much negated the value of any 'gift' I may have had. That said, anything related to c…

> I was a precocious talker and reader, and in many ways a 'gifted' child, but I always struggled to comprehend reading material, or remain engaged with what a teacher was saying. These learning difficulties pretty much negated the value of any 'gift' I may have had. Afaik, those are different brain functions. Early reading is a lot about early development of memory. Comprehending material can be about many different…

I suppose there's probably a few cases where someone had particular brain damage that left their memory intact but could no longer make sense of new information. It's not something I've looked into, honestly. In my instance, I was capable of comprehending complicated subjects, but it took a force of will to stay with the subject long enough.

Re: FDA approves new ADHD drug for children

#183

Post by inter_netuser »

h0l0cube wrote: post #58
eyelidlessness wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a great start. I’ll add some more: - Other common mental health issues like anxiety and depression. I experience both chronically, treating my ADHD is currently the only management I need, nothing else has ever worked. - Sensory sensitivity including overload, confusion, neurological disorders. Hyperacusis and auditory processing disorder are my main issues. I just learned this past weekend that tinnitus may…

Do lower reading comprehension, stunted long and short term memory, and a constantly wandering mind also factor in there? I was a precocious talker and reader, and in many ways a 'gifted' child, but I always struggled to comprehend reading material, or remain engaged with what a teacher was saying. These learning difficulties pretty much negated the value of any 'gift' I may have had. That said, anything related to c…

Textbook case.

Re: FDA approves new ADHD drug for children

#184

Post by zaarn »

vbsteven wrote: post #181
zaarn wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard this so often, even from family. "It sounds like things everybody has to deal with". It's infinitely more difficult with ADHD. I use phone apps to remind myself of everyday things and track my shopping lists. This may sound normal but it's a coping strategy and when it's gone I am unable to function as a normal human being. I cannot go shopping without a shopping list because I will grab things I think I n…

As a 33yo in Europe who got diagnosed and prescribed medication 2 months ago I can attest that it is possible to get a prescription as an adult. I just started working again (on medication) after a 6month work break and it is so refreshing to be able to focus on work for the full 8 hours in a work day. Like you said, the medication doesn't really help with all the "other" stuff that comes with ADHD. (forgetting to br…

In my experience, it is possible but the process isn't exactly geared towards people who actually suffer from ADHD. Getting an appointment via telephone can already be a struggle if you obtained Socanx due to ADHD symptoms (and the plain ol' forgetting for weeks to make the call).

Re: FDA approves new ADHD drug for children

#185

Post by h0l0cube »

follower wrote: post #123
eyelidlessness wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was so much a relief to me too, and I’m glad I could help in that way. I’ll also tell you it saved my life. I had coped pretty well for years, but for a variety of reasons it deteriorated. I was in such bad shape before I sought diagnosis/treatment. Not saying that’s where you’re at but just validating that it can be seriously debilitating. Please feel free to reach out (same handle everywhere, personal site link…

> also if you do want to reach out and it feels daunting in any way, you can literally just say “HN” or any other recognizable thing Talk about empathy in action. That was a really caring touch.

Someone I like in the ASD domain is Max Derrat. He's a gaming streamer (which I have no interest in) but he has a lot of candid observations on his own struggles with autism. His experiences seemed to resonate strongly with a lot of people (myself included), and he's built a bit of a community around it.

Re: FDA approves new ADHD drug for children

#186

Post by pyotr55 »

The_rationalist wrote: post #62
eyelidlessness wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a great start. I’ll add some more: - Other common mental health issues like anxiety and depression. I experience both chronically, treating my ADHD is currently the only management I need, nothing else has ever worked. - Sensory sensitivity including overload, confusion, neurological disorders. Hyperacusis and auditory processing disorder are my main issues. I just learned this past weekend that tinnitus may…

How does one treat chronic anxiety? Xanax has a miracle reputation but like all other benzos it is said to only works temporarily as a hotfix, then you build up tolerance and you go back to your baseline Pre Xanax (or worse). What is very frustrating about such explanations is that I can't tell if it exactly put you back to your pre Xanax era or if after tolerance builds up (for a same dose) you are better than befor…

exercise was the only thing that helped me get rid of panic attacks, and the literature backs that up. here's a recent review, but there's a lot more data out there.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7642996/

Re: FDA approves new ADHD drug for children

#187

Post by mujina93 »

nerdbaggy wrote: post #17

Seems that lots of people only think ADHD people have a hard time paying attention. If it was that simple I would be so happy. Here are just a few of the things I struggle with. - Will power. People with ADHD struggle sooooo much with will power. It’s a constant struggle with everything in life and really wears you down. - Constantly putting on a fake front pretending you don’t have ADHD. - Rejection sensitivity - Fe…

I can relate with most of the things from the blog post, and I am sure the pain the author goes through is real. In no way I want to diminish it.

Having said that, a couple of things:

- I think on HN it would be more appropriate to link to medical/scientific resources, instead of personal blog pages like this, which despite being relatable, are dangerous to extrapolate an objective and statistical view on the topic from. I personally found some parts to be too driven by animosity (against "nonbelievers"), and some to show contradictory advice. There are several good parts, but overall I did not find it a high quality piece, and I would advice against proposing that as a flagship piece.

- When I read pieces like these, the question that pops into my mind is: how can we distinguish a person that has a condition and that needs comprehension from a person that is just lazy, that just wants to do what they want all the time, and that lies to you about them being in pain (or maybe even lie to themselves, having built a view of the world in which they thing they are going through something and they are legitimized to act in a certain way, or they built a habit and can't help to act in that way)? I do not ask this with the intent of provoking anybody. It is a serious question, both philosophical (what is lazyness? Is there a thing such as inability to focus with and without malice? Who has the right to judge morally?) and practical/scientific/medical (how can we distinguish an illness from something that would look indistinguishable, when hearing from people claiming it? What are objective methods that we can use to declare that we are witnessing a legitimate impairment in someone? Does a right moment ever come for nudging, scolding, encouraging? Or is it never the right thing to do, with anybody?)

I think, to answer the latter, more statistical surveys would be useful for all of us to share and to read, so that we could avoid the usual anecdote-driven arguments that most of the time plague threads like this one, even on a website like HN, which is full of scientific-minded people.

I am the first one that would like to read more academic literature and less anecdotes on the topic, but I am not very informed. So, if anybody has resources to share that could help the discussion, please do! :)

Re: FDA approves new ADHD drug for children

#188

Post by bluecalm »

jasonkester wrote: post #128
nerdbaggy wrote: post #17

Seems that lots of people only think ADHD people have a hard time paying attention. If it was that simple I would be so happy. Here are just a few of the things I struggle with. - Will power. People with ADHD struggle sooooo much with will power. It’s a constant struggle with everything in life and really wears you down. - Constantly putting on a fake front pretending you don’t have ADHD. - Rejection sensitivity - Fe…

How do you reconcile this with the observation that seemingly every single child in the United States is diagnosed with this condition and prescribed drugs to treat it? Watching from Europe, where roughly nobody is diagnosed with it nor prescribed drugs to treat it, I’m always baffled, fascinated and horrified watching Americans talk about it.

Coming from Europe (Poland) I hate the politicians for it. My school experience was a nightmare. My friendships went away. My apartment was always a mess. I couldn't hold to any project for more than a few weeks. I was struggling with simple everyday thing like paying bills (had electricity cut off several times because of missed bills), keeping any kind of commitment, making any kind of change in my life. I think the best description of it is executive function disorder.

I was even diagnosed as a child (very rare back in the day) but all they focused on was the hyperactive part. They made me attend useless therapy sessions, blamed me for everything and labeled a lazy not caring child. No one ever even mentioned medication.

The hyperactive part went away when I was around 13. I was healed or so they thought. Still lazy, still wasting my potential, still couldn't learn to sit quietly in place but not stirring trouble anymore.

My life was a disaster since graduating high school. I dropped from university. Lost contact with most friends, started gambling for living - I was good at math and reasoning and it was easy back then to make living at it. I never had any kind of job nor hold any kind of marketable skill.

And then I met someone who gave stimulants to me. It was night and day difference instantly. My apartment was suddenly clean. My bills were paid. I started learning programming again. I founded a small software company which got very successful. I started a relationship, reconnected with some friends. Started doing sports, stopped missing appointments. I even got officially diagnosed with ADHD in my thirties. It took a while to find about one place in my country that diagnoses adults. Most doctors didn't even want to talk to me as they thought I just want to get stimulants to get high. It's a humiliating experience when you hear a doctor after doctor telling you it doesn't exist, that I just want stimulants or that maybe I should get a calendar and organize my life.

It's still not perfect. The only stimulant I can legally get here is Ritalin which has very unpleasant side effects. I can get Modafinil on black market which is too mild but doesn't have sides and makes things a bit better. Trying to get Adderall can land me in jail. It's usually a mix of small doses of Modafinil and either caffeine or very small Ritalin dose. This way I can get a few productive hours a day. Maybe 4. If I can get 4 I am happy. It was a good day and I don't hate myself after.

I have one thing to say to self righteous moralizing politicians and doctors in Europe. Go fuck yourself. I am lucky to be born with above average IQ and not trusting you much. To do my reading and being able to get stuff on the black market. You still caused my life to be a constant struggle for 2 decades. I know there are people who never realized the change is possible and their suffering is to satisfy your moral convictions.

So why exactly are you horrified? Is there a pleasure in watching people struggle and being able to get help? Is it some kind of God given destiny they have to deal with? Are you horrified when people get insulin to treat Diabetes as well or TRT to treat androgen deficiency? I have heard such comments a lot and all I hear is: "you should suffer your destiny, we don't help people here".

Re: FDA approves new ADHD drug for children

#189

Post by runawaybottle »

iovrthoughtthis wrote: post #149
runawaybottle wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s all good. Been there done that, it helps pay the bills and get good grades. If you don’t overdo it who is to tell you anything is wrong. There’s absolutely no difference between the stuff you described and the stuff an average person with zero discipline or work ethic deals with. It‘a the slackers in high school who never studied and passed everything that can’t handle they spent 18 years not developing serious…

maybe zero discipline and/or work ethic are disorders? do you believe in the concept if mental health at all?

Absolutely. I generally believe that the way behavioral patterns emerge is not instant, and therefore the way you get out cannot be instant. In other words, the only way out of the darkness is walking back through the exact path you came from.

It takes a long time of not focusing on daily practice and discipline to get to the point where you don’t realize you need to put in at least a few hours of studying per day. If you go years and years of studying the week of or the day before the test, you will become a certain way. I’d wager most Americans do all their major class work last minute since they were kids. Along with that, they spend hours and hours playing video games and watching YouTube/Netflix/social media since childhood. By the time you are 25, you probably have a solid 20 years of insane habits.

What few people will admit here is what they did for most of their life. Okay, so you realized you can’t read a textbook in college. Can you describe to me how you passed the time over the last 18 years? I’m sure you managed to fill the time. You didn’t stare at the wall for 18 years. If you literally stared at the wall, fine, here is a prescription to whatever drug you want.

If you managed to do all of the other bullshit I described above, then please take some responsibility on developing better habits. It’s the intellectual version of becoming obese. You know what you ate for the last several years.

The only part of this I have genuine sympathy for is that life does not wait around for you to take the steps and fix this stuff when reality confronts you. If your 20, life will not wait 5-7 years for you to rehabilitate. Life will pass you by. I understand it, but we aren’t going to propagate confirmation bias, especially when we are teaching the new generation of children even earlier that their habits are conducive to being productive.

The developer community can help in the workplace. Split up work, don’t make everything end-all-be-all project. Everyone’s dealing with burn out or a lifetime of bad habits, drug dependency, etc, and this will compress the timeline needed to begin fixing this. It’s unfortunate, to say the least.

Re: FDA approves new ADHD drug for children

#190

Post by Jarwain »

Jarwain wrote: post #89
The_rationalist wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does one treat chronic anxiety? Xanax has a miracle reputation but like all other benzos it is said to only works temporarily as a hotfix, then you build up tolerance and you go back to your baseline Pre Xanax (or worse). What is very frustrating about such explanations is that I can't tell if it exactly put you back to your pre Xanax era or if after tolerance builds up (for a same dose) you are better than befor…

I don't think there's any drug that'll "Fix" your anxiety. The problem with benzos and anxiolytics is that they work short term but the tolerance is going to be bad and the rebound effect is going to be worse and last forever. The right anti-depressant or ssri Might help, even if depression isn't the exact thing you're trying to resolve. As far as I understand, benzos or anxiolytics help manage the Really Bad Moments…

s/hekp helps/help with y behavior
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