Yellen calls for global minimum corporate tax rate • Hacker News Board

Re: Yellen calls for global minimum corporate tax rate

#51

Post by jurassic » Mon, Apr 05, 2021, 6:11 PM UTC

ineptech wrote: post #25

TechBro8615 wrote: post #13

That doesn't seem fair to the smaller (sovereign) countries who want to set their own tax laws to incentivize companies to do business there. In fact, it seems fundamentally outrageous that one country should be able to dictate anything about tax laws in another country. Wars have been fought over such abuses of power.

I think you're missing the point here. > "We're working with G20 nations to agree to a global minimum corporate tax rate that can stop the race to the bottom." The race to the bottom Yellen refers to is corporations playing one country off another, as in "lower your taxes or we'll move our profits to Ireland." The proposed solution - countries agreeing with each other not to lower the corporate tax rate below some li…

I don't think it's fair to assume harmonized tax rates are mutually beneficial. Taking Ireland as an example, how many of the companies that shifted profits there for favorable tax treatment would continue to do that if they had to pay the same as they would in the US? My guess is relatively few would remain. So Ireland would likely lose revenue without that discount as an incentive drawing in these companies.

Re: Yellen calls for global minimum corporate tax rate

#52

Post by cutchin » Mon, Apr 05, 2021, 6:14 PM UTC

dnautics wrote: post #30

nonameiguess wrote: post #20

We need a global maximum, of 0%. I don't want to sound like some kind of hardcore Austrian fundamentalist, because I'm not. Taxes are fine, but levying them on fictitious non-person entities is just a means of obscuring to voters where the tax burden ultimately lies. All taxes are paid by individuals, either directly, or by corporations raising or lowering the prices they charge and prices they pay, to suppliers, emp…

I'm kind of the opposite. We should have 0% personal income tax and a minimum corporate income tax. A personal income tax incentivises the state to surveil the economic activity of individuals and play games with nudging people to do X or Y, and puts the burden of tax filing and the consequences of not reporting (which some people just can't do correctly). Contrariwise, a corporate income tax can be thought of as a "…

I don't understand how this would work. You would tax corporations based on actual income? So money-losing businesses would have to pay taxes on their income even though they operated at a net loss? And low-volume/high-revenue businesses would pay less in taxes than high-volume/low-revenue would?

Re: Yellen calls for global minimum corporate tax rate

#53

Post by legitster » Mon, Apr 05, 2021, 6:15 PM UTC

A corporate income tax is only slightly more progressive than a flat tax.

A corporate tax rate of 0% but corporate income is passed through to shareholders as personal income seems better in every regard.

Re: Yellen calls for global minimum corporate tax rate

#54

Post by dnautics » Mon, Apr 05, 2021, 6:16 PM UTC

cutchin wrote: post #52

dnautics wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm kind of the opposite. We should have 0% personal income tax and a minimum corporate income tax. A personal income tax incentivises the state to surveil the economic activity of individuals and play games with nudging people to do X or Y, and puts the burden of tax filing and the consequences of not reporting (which some people just can't do correctly). Contrariwise, a corporate income tax can be thought of as a "…

I don't understand how this would work. You would tax corporations based on actual income? So money-losing businesses would have to pay taxes on their income even though they operated at a net loss? And low-volume/high-revenue businesses would pay less in taxes than high-volume/low-revenue would?

I am agnostic on if it should be based off of income or profit and leave those sorts of details up to congress.

Re: Yellen calls for global minimum corporate tax rate

#55

Post by ping_pong » Mon, Apr 05, 2021, 6:17 PM UTC

jokoon wrote: post #35

I believe that the pandemic will make world politics lean to the left. It's inevitable. Such a gigantic crisis will force society into mutual help, and will make it harder for values like independence and individualism to really thrive and endure. No man is an island. It's true that trade and entrepreneurship are a form of mutual help, but competition bring the worse, and it becomes the economy of the survival of the…

And yet, it didn't do that with the US. I'm frankly shocked that so many anti-maskers and covid-hoaxers are so adamant, because this was the perfect case for universal health care in the US. And yet, you hear NO ONE calling for it. It's like learned helplessness. There's almost half the population that actively rejects it, which is mindboggling to me.

Re: Yellen calls for global minimum corporate tax rate

#56

Post by Nullabillity » Mon, Apr 05, 2021, 6:19 PM UTC

woot482 wrote: post #41

pessimizer wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is how imperialism works. > If you had build the most successful retail business, in 1900 you would own the market in your town; in 1950 in your country; in 2020 you'd own the world (or a big part of it). The opportunity is just a lot bigger now than 50 years ago and that trickles down. In 1900, thousands would own the markets in their respective towns, in 1950 dozens would own the the markets in their countries…

If you believe that, then your answer is anti-trust -- not taxes. You also need to cut all red tape for small businesses which right now are enormous especially in places like NYC (property taxes alone are a travesty). All taxes do is make the government a business partner of the 'imperialist' entrepreneur. It won't bring back the small town businesses or anything else about the past that you idealize.

Antitrust is an intended outcome, progressive taxation is one way to (try to) accomplish it.

Re: Yellen calls for global minimum corporate tax rate

#57

Post by relax88 » Mon, Apr 05, 2021, 6:19 PM UTC

nonameiguess wrote: post #20

We need a global maximum, of 0%. I don't want to sound like some kind of hardcore Austrian fundamentalist, because I'm not. Taxes are fine, but levying them on fictitious non-person entities is just a means of obscuring to voters where the tax burden ultimately lies. All taxes are paid by individuals, either directly, or by corporations raising or lowering the prices they charge and prices they pay, to suppliers, emp…

How do you deal with the complexity of taxing suppliers and customers of businesses?

How do you determine the value of goods exchanged and ensure these are equitably taxed?

What happens when you've got a mega-corporation that is both supplier and customer to another business?

What happens if they just decide to exchange goods well below market price and only settle the surplus/deficit of those transactions?

Re: Yellen calls for global minimum corporate tax rate

#58

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Apr 05, 2021, 6:20 PM UTC

woot482 wrote: post #23

macrael wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might enjoy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_in_the_Twenty-First_Ce...

I know the book and it's an interesting theory. I guess most of the 'rich' people I know / know of are entrepreneurs and they didn't get rich from capital returns but by building a company that created an unthinkable amount of value and also many jobs and success for a lot of people. In my mind also, the best antidote to that is not taxes but anti-trust (make sure companies don't unfairly stay dominant) and low inter…

[deleted]

Re: Yellen calls for global minimum corporate tax rate

#59

Post by bko » Mon, Apr 05, 2021, 6:22 PM UTC

nonameiguess wrote: post #20

We need a global maximum, of 0%. I don't want to sound like some kind of hardcore Austrian fundamentalist, because I'm not. Taxes are fine, but levying them on fictitious non-person entities is just a means of obscuring to voters where the tax burden ultimately lies. All taxes are paid by individuals, either directly, or by corporations raising or lowering the prices they charge and prices they pay, to suppliers, emp…

Also worth noting that corporate taxes make up only 7% of federal tax receipts, but likely incur a huge cost in terms of avoidance and manipulating practices.

https://www.cbpp.org/research/federal-tax/where-do-federal-t...

Re: Yellen calls for global minimum corporate tax rate

#60

Post by cuspycode » Mon, Apr 05, 2021, 6:22 PM UTC

nonameiguess wrote: post #20

We need a global maximum, of 0%. I don't want to sound like some kind of hardcore Austrian fundamentalist, because I'm not. Taxes are fine, but levying them on fictitious non-person entities is just a means of obscuring to voters where the tax burden ultimately lies. All taxes are paid by individuals, either directly, or by corporations raising or lowering the prices they charge and prices they pay, to suppliers, emp…

Agreed. Instead of taxing the profit of a corporation, just tax the payment of dividends from that profit. The total tax burden can still remain the same if that's what people desire, but the end result will be more transparency as you say. I think Estonia has exactly this policy, or at least they did last time I checked.

It also removes the incentive to mess around with stock buybacks, which is good because the extra liquidity can be put to better use within the company.

For very small companies (such as my own) it would also remove the bureaucracy involved in saving profits from one fiscal year to the next.