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Uber ordered to pay $1.1M to blind woman refused rides

bbc.com

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Re: Uber ordered to pay $1.1M to blind woman refused rides

#261

Post by morelisp »

LocalH wrote: post #254
morelisp wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All 15 of your employees have medically serious dog allergies?

If a small business owner happened to be that unlucky, how would you propose it be dealt with? If I were such a business owner, I would honestly attempt to arrange the customer be handled by a competitor, if it was legit a situation where everyone at my company happened to be seriously allergic to dogs.

I think that business owner should realize by employee 12 or 13 they probably need to diversify a bit in order to stay legally compliant. It is not a complicated or difficult thing to handle.

Re: Uber ordered to pay $1.1M to blind woman refused rides

#262

Post by oh_sigh »

1023bytes wrote: post #12

She didn't get $1.1m, the settlement was $324,000 in damages plus legal expenses of $805,313. That kind of changes the narrative in my opinion.

$324,000/ 14 denied rides = $23k in damages per denied ride. She must be a much bigger deal than I am.

Re: Uber ordered to pay $1.1M to blind woman refused rides

#263

Post by Miner49er »

nitrogen wrote: post #247
Miner49er wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But the point about there being a small handful of drivers in an area still stands. Yeah in this case, a driver may have to take a service dog even if they have fear or an allergy, or Uber could be sued again. IANAL, but this is my understanding.

This type of compelled behavior seems like an oversized club to wield for the problem at hand. No individual should be forced to do something that will be harmful to them just because another individual belongs to a particular group.

No individual is being forced. Uber is being forced. Uber's the one that's gonna have to pay another $1 million in damages or whatever if they don't.

Re: Uber ordered to pay $1.1M to blind woman refused rides

#264

Post by Bedon292 »

LocalH wrote: post #236
Bedon292 wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Legally an actual service animal must be trained. Emotional support, for a variety of reasons including things like PTSD and anxiety attacks, is a completely valid use of service animals. How do you know they were not trained? If they were misbehaving, that's reason for them to be rejected, training or not. If not, legally allergies and fear of dogs are not valid reasons for denying access or refusing service to peop…

>If not, legally allergies and fear of dogs are not valid reasons for denying access or refusing service to people using service animals. This should change. Especially on the allergy front. Forcing someone to suffer an allergic reaction because a customer has a service dog is immoral.

I am not taking a stance on the law itself, but it is what the current law is. And has been in place for at least a decade in its current form. If it is a serious issue, then people should definitely work to change the law.

But, unless they are the only one available or something, there is nothing in the law saying that specific employee has to keep providing service. The company should make a best effort to remove that employee from contact, without impacting the service of the customer.

Re: Uber ordered to pay $1.1M to blind woman refused rides

#265

Post by elil17 »

ecf wrote: post #242
elil17 wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well perhaps it is because Uber pays their drivers poverty wages. I can imagine a driver taking advantage of a passenger because they need food or shelter for themselves or their family. Obviously it’s cruel to do this to a blind passenger, but I think the fundamental moral problem is really with the decision makers at Uber not with the driver.

If you remove all forms of monetary persuasion and simply look at this from the perspective of a human being, the driver is a monster.

But the monetary aspect exists, there’s no way to ignore how little Uber drivers are paid. Full time drivers earn about $30k/year without any benefits in San Francisco. That’s less than half of the poverty line for an individual and less than a third for a family of four. A person earning that little money in SF is likely to be in a really really desperate financial situation - possibly homeless.

Yes, doing that to someone is wrong. It’s absolutely wrong. But I just can’t ignore the people who put the driver in that situation and the culpability they have here.

Re: Uber ordered to pay $1.1M to blind woman refused rides

#266

Post by magsnus »

orthecreedence wrote: post #230
magsnus wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How on earth does this apply to cars?

Put up a divider. Or update the app's UX: "[ ] I'm blind and have a service dog."

Considering how little Uber drivers makes per drive (and they are independent contractors and not workers in most places) a simple divider would probably come close to the "unreasonable cost" in the ADA. It is not that I don't empathize with disabled people but ADA as it seems to be written and all the "support animals" these days would probably drive many small business to bankrupcy.

In Sweden "our ADA" only applies to lead-dogs and they have a special "blanket" and most people that want to bring their dogs into restaurants and hotels don't have licensed dogs. But still, if all the "dog rooms" are taken then the deep cleaning required is a pretty big cost to bear and I have seen customers turn in the door when there was a dog in the restaurant.

So it is not a simple issue and I sympathize with the small independent contractors. Uber, not so much.

Re: Uber ordered to pay $1.1M to blind woman refused rides

#267

Post by chrisBob »

I am amazed that Uber still exists.

Of course a blind woman was refused rides. Their goal is to be a taxi service minus that ignores the regulations that were added to taxi services for a reason.

As a large healthy white male I know I could probably use Uber safely, but I refuse to support a business that makes rides much worse and more dangerous for those that are more vulnerable. Taxis seem bad enough with the oversight in place.

Re: Uber ordered to pay $1.1M to blind woman refused rides

#268

Post by ehmmmmmmmm »

pessimizer wrote: post #244
LocalH wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO that's not a valid reason to ignore deep-seated fears of others.

What if I'm afraid of homosexuals or black people?

I don't think that's funny or a valid comparison.

Dogs aren't even the same species. It's not immoral to be afraid of them and having PTSD because of negative interactions with a particular predatory canine species is very normal.

Hopefully service robots won't be very far into the future. I don't want to discriminate against blind people. But I really don't think there is a problem with not being okay around a particular set of non-human species (alligators, hornets, lions, coyotes, dogs, bears, mosquitoes, ...)

Re: Uber ordered to pay $1.1M to blind woman refused rides

#269

Post by CJefferson »

maxharris wrote: post #58

I'd like to go out on a limb and say that I don't agree with the ADA. I don't think any private person or organization should be compelled to provide facilities or services for anyone else, regardless of what their need is. I have no animus toward people with disabilities - I'm just saying that no one should be forced to help anyone else. If you want to do something for someone else's benefit, you should be free to d…

No-one is being "forced to help". They are providing a paid service, and all times you pay someone to do something in the U.S., there are legal requirements on the seller and the buyer.

Re: Uber ordered to pay $1.1M to blind woman refused rides

#270

Post by jariel »

"One driver allegedly cut her trip short after falsely claiming to have arrived at her destination."

What is wrong with people?

I can understand something like this maybe happening once?

But that this happened 14 times makes me lose faith in people.

Civilization is built on the little things if they go, it stops.

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