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Uber ordered to pay $1.1M to blind woman refused rides

bbc.com

71–80 of 502 posts

Re: Uber ordered to pay $1.1M to blind woman refused rides

#71
post #7

> It rejected Uber's claim that the company itself was not liable, because, it argued, its drivers had the status of contractors rather than employees. I feel like money would be better spent raising awareness of service dogs and dealing with fraudulent (they do call it fraud, right?) service dogs than fining Uber.

Yes, makes no sense that anyone can register their pet as emotional support.

My understanding isn't that they're not actually "registering" anything. But rather just putting a piece of cloth they bought on amazon on their animal they and claiming it to be so.

They're abusing a part of the law most people don't understand (and most companies don't want to add to the drama of even if they do). IANAL, but it was explained to me that you cannot ask basically anything about service animals, other than one thing: "What is your service animal trained to do?". Apparently, service animals are supposed to be trained to do one specific task for their owner. Otherwise, they're not actually service animals. Allowing that question allows companies to verify that the animal is actually a service animal... without offending the people who require the animal.

I was talking to a friend of mine who works for a museum of sorts. These not-service animals are causing problems for them. But they are strictly forbidden to say or do anything about any pet being claimed to be a service animal. I suspect it's because they either (a) don't understand the law, and so they're trying to avoid being liable to anything, and/or (b) they don't care enough and just want to avoid the drama the fraudsters will cause.

I've read comments from people with actual service animals saying they wish companies (airports, etc) would crack down on it though. Because these untrained animals are making their own very expensive animals look bad. AND the untrained animals will yip and snap and pester the real service animals.

Re: Uber ordered to pay $1.1M to blind woman refused rides

#72
post #63
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone shows up with something that couldn't legally be a service animal (e.g. a bunny) or cannot respond adequately as to how the dog has been trained to perform a specific task, then they may have grounds to refuse to admit the dog. https://www.ada.gov/regs2010/service_animal_qa.html Q3. Are emotional support, therapy, comfort, or companion animals considered service animals under the ADA? A. No. These terms ar…

> (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability? and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform? I worked at a Costco for a few years, these two questions were drilled into us over and over and over and over. People tried to bring dogs into Costco all the time, and we'd ask these two (and only these two) questions. Occasionally, some new employee or someone who was grumpy would go of…

Gah. Humans are so annoying sometimes, aren't they?

Did the legally allowed questions allow you to exclude the dog very often, or did you pretty much have to concede the matter most of the time?

Re: Uber ordered to pay $1.1M to blind woman refused rides

#73

“One driver allegedly cut her trip short after falsely claiming to have arrived at her destination.” That’s particularly awful and cruel. It must be extremely disorienting and stressful for a blind person to be put in that situation.

Yeah, after reading this I can't forget it. Not sure what kind of animal one needs to be to do this.

Re: Uber ordered to pay $1.1M to blind woman refused rides

#74

It was downvoted below, but reposting here because this is something that I think should be seen as it comes up often: >> "The bottom line is that under the Americans with Disabilities Act, a guide dog should be able to go anywhere that a blind person can go." > Okay, I completely get this, but question -- what about business owners and drivers who are traumatized by dogs? If I were a driver, I'd be much more likely…

Wouldn’t someone with a severe allergy to dogs also be covered under ADA?

Re: Uber ordered to pay $1.1M to blind woman refused rides

#75
post #37

> "The bottom line is that under the Americans with Disabilities Act, a guide dog should be able to go anywhere that a blind person can go." Okay, I completely get this, but question -- what about business owners and drivers who are traumatized by dogs? If I were a driver, I'd be much more likely to crash the car if there was a dog in the car of any kind. I've had traumatic experiences with dogs and being near one se…

If you are providing rides as a business, you must be willing to accept seeing eye dogs. If you cannot meet this qualification, then your options are limited. I am not a lawyer, but it sounds like you might not want to own a driving business or you may want to work with your employer to accommodate your needs. (e.g. by dispatching another driver, etc.)

Drivers are not a "business". They are laborers for Uber, which is the business.

Re: Uber ordered to pay $1.1M to blind woman refused rides

#76
post #7

> It rejected Uber's claim that the company itself was not liable, because, it argued, its drivers had the status of contractors rather than employees. I feel like money would be better spent raising awareness of service dogs and dealing with fraudulent (they do call it fraud, right?) service dogs than fining Uber.

In practice, I'm not sure there's anything that can be done about service dog misrepresentation.

When I was trained in restaurants to deal with (potential) service dogs, the extent to which I was allowed to ask any questions was "Is that a service dog?". As long as the answer was "Yes", I was to leave them alone. No questions asked. Anything else supposedly opened you to litigation

Edit: Looks like there's a separate thread with additional ADA info. Tl;dr - nothing you can do to stop people misrepresenting their dogs as service animals.

Re: Uber ordered to pay $1.1M to blind woman refused rides

#77
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Emotional support animal =/= service dog. Service dogs are specially trained for a job and cost upwards of $25-30k to train and maintain their training. Emotional support animals don't require any training and don't have nearly as many rights as a proper service dog.

Yes but you also don't have to prove that your dog is the latter, so...

Many states have started implementing laws against falsely claiming service dogs.

https://www.animallaw.info/content/fraudulent-service-dogs

Re: Uber ordered to pay $1.1M to blind woman refused rides

#79
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone shows up with something that couldn't legally be a service animal (e.g. a bunny) or cannot respond adequately as to how the dog has been trained to perform a specific task, then they may have grounds to refuse to admit the dog. https://www.ada.gov/regs2010/service_animal_qa.html Q3. Are emotional support, therapy, comfort, or companion animals considered service animals under the ADA? A. No. These terms ar…

I’m familiar with those guidelines, but effectively, anyone can say anything, and the last sentence shows that you basically have to take their word for it (unless you want to risk getting involved in a costly legal matter). I know you don’t have to take lizards as service animals, but you do basically have to take chihuahuas or Pomeranians or pit bulls or Rottweilers or whatever as service dogs, and maybe miniature…

First section of your link:

> Beginning on March 15, 2011, only dogs are recognized as service animals under titles II and III of the ADA

And thus now miniature horses are under a much more strict regulatory regime.

Re: Uber ordered to pay $1.1M to blind woman refused rides

#80

I'd like to go out on a limb and say that I don't agree with the ADA. I don't think any private person or organization should be compelled to provide facilities or services for anyone else, regardless of what their need is. I have no animus toward people with disabilities - I'm just saying that no one should be forced to help anyone else. If you want to do something for someone else's benefit, you should be free to d…

How would you think about the best way to provide services to members of our society that are less able than others?
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