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Amazon illegally fired activist workers, Labor Board finds

nytimes.com

71–80 of 416 posts

Re: Amazon illegally fired activist workers, Labor Board finds

#71
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not just about the bottom line, it’s also about power. Without unionization, Amazon has complete control over their workers wages, benefits, and work contracts. Unionization shifts some of that control to the workers themselves. Amazon doesn’t want to lose that power.

If they had provided good benefits and working condition, the workers will not be incentivized to form unions, right? Why are they not doing that?

Because good benefits and working conditions are fleeting without the power of collective bargaining behind it. Without a union, employees are depending entirely on the goodwill of their employers.

Re: Amazon illegally fired activist workers, Labor Board finds

#72
post #64

That's the reason why I don't buy anything from Amazon and prefer to pay a bit more to a local store instead.

Been using Target Staples, and Bestbuy more and while they don’t always have the same items, brand names end up being roughly the same price due to auto price matching and contractual minimum prices. Only times I’m using amazon is for cheap items no one else will ship. They’ve really just turned into AliExpress.

And with those companies you actually get the brand name item instead of a knock-off!

Re: Amazon illegally fired activist workers, Labor Board finds

#73
> After Amazon told them that they had violated its external communications policy by speaking publicly about the business, their group organized 400 employees to also speak out, purposely violating the policy to make a point.

I get that Amazon and big tech hate posts are a daily thing on HN these days, but this seems simple enough to me.

They broke Amazons policies and organized other employees to also break policy. If I was a business owner, I would have done the same thing.

The most vocal crowd on the Amazon topic here on HN despise the company outright. I’m onboard with taxing big companies, etc, but it’s sad this stuff takes up the front page. The quality of discussion is the same as /r/politics or /r/worldnews.

Re: Amazon illegally fired activist workers, Labor Board finds

#74

The labor laws in place violate the freedom of association and are terrible for social welfare. There is a reason why unionization is associated with enterprise decline, and why shareholders oppose it. Amazon is doing immense good for US quality of life and raising US export revenue, and there is no benefit in jeopardizing that to give a select group of workers a monopoly over the jobs it offers.

I'm hard-pressed to think of any example where a unionized labor force killed a viable industry (or even a single company). Even when I think of the cases where unions hurt the viability of the company, the primary cause of decline was poor strategy and decision-making on the part of the owners. Blaming unions for those cases seems to be a rather sleazy way for the owners to avoid any liability for their faults.

I'm hard-pressed to think of any example where a unionized labor force killed a viable industry (or even a single company).

Look up the British car industry, specifically the antics of "Red Robbo" at British Leyland. Carmaking is a viable industry in the UK and is doing well now that it is all foreign-owned with minimal union interference. There would probably still be coal mining in the UK if it were not for the NUM, we import coal now.

Then again this is specific to Britain, German unions are completely different, and I would be pro-union if ours were like the Germans.

Re: Amazon illegally fired activist workers, Labor Board finds

#75
post #41
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have a stash or anything, so I mean this only helpfully, but https://www.google.com/search?q=eve+online+propaganda looks to have some interesting stuff

Fair! EVE Online has always fascinated me with how much of a world it is. I tried getting into it a couple of times, but I just don't have time for it.

I've come across this problem. Have you considered becoming permanently disabled, or otherwise homebound?

Re: Amazon illegally fired activist workers, Labor Board finds

#76

> After Amazon told them that they had violated its external communications policy by speaking publicly about the business, their group organized 400 employees to also speak out, purposely violating the policy to make a point. I get that Amazon and big tech hate posts are a daily thing on HN these days, but this seems simple enough to me. They broke Amazons policies and organized other employees to also break policy.…

[deleted]

Re: Amazon illegally fired activist workers, Labor Board finds

#77
post #2

"The agency told Ms. Cunningham and Ms. Costa that it would accuse Amazon of unfair labor practices if the company did not settle the case, according to correspondence that Ms. Cunningham shared with The New York Times." That's a pretty nice piece of leverage to have in hand while negotiating a settlement. Edit: They were both UX/Design folks with Amazon, fired on April 10th, 2020. Costa was Amazon's first ever Princ…

Is settlement actually a bad deal for Amazon or similar companies like Google? Sure they have to spend a bit of money on the settlement but they have still succeeded at their actual objective of getting rid of the activist employees. This cycle (labour organisation attempt -> leaders fired -> settlement for leaders -> leaders go off to some media job/retirement/academia) happens again and again. Presumably the compan…

they have still succeeded at their actual objective of getting rid of the activist employees.

Activists often get a free pass. So long as they're saying the "right thing," the press covers for them. Since anyone can just put out their slate and become an "activist," this creates a situation where random people people are given enough power to abuse and basically no oversight.

What if we had a society where Doctors got a free pass? What if there were no qualifications, and random people could call themselves doctors? So long as they're saying the "right thing," the press covers for them. Since anyone can just put out their slate and become a "Doctor," this creates a situation where random people people are given enough power to abuse and basically no oversight.

We have historical precedents for this. What you get are the moral equivalents of wild west medicine shows.

Further symptoms: When you start giving [X] a free pass, you'd start to see a degradation in the follower's understanding of morality, ethics, and fundamental principles which have far-reaching game theoretic consequences. These consequences aren't that easy to understand, so we'd expect to see people do shortsighted things which bring about those consequences. One would expect to see an ethos of totalitarian obeisance in [X] groups replace an ethos of free inquiry. One would expect to see forms of bigotry and the shallow judging of people by surface characteristics, sneaking in while disguised as other names. One would expect to see some scummy people who latched onto the moniker of [X] for a variety of reasons, who later on show their true colors.

One would expect to see the behavior of the mob.

Presumably the companies think they’re getting a reasonably good deal out of firing the organisers.

Some activists are genuinely speaking truth to power. Some are exploiters. Some are somewhere in between. There need to be checks and balances. The fundamental right of free association isn't so bad a place to start.

Re: Amazon illegally fired activist workers, Labor Board finds

#78
post #2

"The agency told Ms. Cunningham and Ms. Costa that it would accuse Amazon of unfair labor practices if the company did not settle the case, according to correspondence that Ms. Cunningham shared with The New York Times." That's a pretty nice piece of leverage to have in hand while negotiating a settlement. Edit: They were both UX/Design folks with Amazon, fired on April 10th, 2020. Costa was Amazon's first ever Princ…

> That's a pretty nice piece of leverage to have in hand while negotiating a settlement.

Isn't that how things usually work? If one party does something illegal, then the other can offer a settlement using the threat of other legal action as leverage?

Re: Amazon illegally fired activist workers, Labor Board finds

#79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm hard-pressed to think of any example where a unionized labor force killed a viable industry (or even a single company). Even when I think of the cases where unions hurt the viability of the company, the primary cause of decline was poor strategy and decision-making on the part of the owners. Blaming unions for those cases seems to be a rather sleazy way for the owners to avoid any liability for their faults.

I'm hard-pressed to think of any example where a unionized labor force killed a viable industry (or even a single company). Look up the British car industry, specifically the antics of "Red Robbo" at British Leyland. Carmaking is a viable industry in the UK and is doing well now that it is all foreign-owned with minimal union interference. There would probably still be coal mining in the UK if it were not for the NUM…

You're buying into propaganda about British unions, blaming them for the car industry is ridiculous, and when it comes to mining you seem to think that the mines would have lasted longer had unions not been against shutting mines?
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