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Amazon illegally fired activist workers, Labor Board finds

nytimes.com

41–50 of 416 posts

Re: Amazon illegally fired activist workers, Labor Board finds

#41
post #29
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am actually curious to see the EVE Online propaganda. Do you have any links?

I don't have a stash or anything, so I mean this only helpfully, but https://www.google.com/search?q=eve+online+propaganda looks to have some interesting stuff

Fair! EVE Online has always fascinated me with how much of a world it is. I tried getting into it a couple of times, but I just don't have time for it.

Re: Amazon illegally fired activist workers, Labor Board finds

#42
Are there any apps to streamline the unionization of businesses? It would seem quorum discovery is the hardest part of creating a union -- who is ready to join. Being in a union myself, even with some of the political issues that come with it, I very much appreciate what they do for me.

Re: Amazon illegally fired activist workers, Labor Board finds

#43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So it's your point of view that the NYT's shouldn't be doing journalism, but advocacy? Readers don't get to make up their minds, but get spoon fed just what they need to know as determined by their betters? It's a brave new world you're creating.

The NLRB is the legal system for deciding such matters. Amazon's legal theories no longer hold weight. Do you expect the NYT to publish every failed, specious motion filed in standard court cases in the name of "both sides" after the case has been decided? No, you take statements from both sides, and report what the legal system has decided.

I have a feeling that you wouldn't be making this argument if the decision was reversed. The law is important, it's how we resolve disputes like this. But rulings can be disputed and one is not obligated to dismiss "Amazon's legal theories" from one's mind just because some legal body ruled one way or another.

As a reader, I am interested to hear exactly how Amazon claims these former employees violated its internal policies. The article's lack of curiosity is interesting.

Re: Amazon illegally fired activist workers, Labor Board finds

#44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So it's your point of view that the NYT's shouldn't be doing journalism, but advocacy? Readers don't get to make up their minds, but get spoon fed just what they need to know as determined by their betters? It's a brave new world you're creating.

The NLRB is the legal system for deciding such matters. Amazon's legal theories no longer hold weight. Do you expect the NYT to publish every failed, specious motion filed in standard court cases in the name of "both sides" after the case has been decided? No, you take statements from both sides, and report what the legal system has decided.

While I agree with you in this instance, I think there are cases where the different opinions in a case are relevant, such as the majority and dissenting opinions in SCOTUS cases.

Re: Amazon illegally fired activist workers, Labor Board finds

#45
post #31
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's 2 quotes from an Amazon spokesperson there: “We support every employee’s right to criticize their employer’s working conditions, but that does not come with blanket immunity against our internal policies, all of which are lawful,” said Jaci Anderson, an Amazon spokeswoman. “We terminated these employees not for talking publicly about working conditions, safety or sustainability but, rather, for repeatedly vio…

Right. But it would interesting to hear how Amazon claims these employees violated internal policies. That seems newsworthy.

Their spokesperson did not wish to say what policies they claim were violated. They were presented an opportunity to state their side, and chose not to.

Re: Amazon illegally fired activist workers, Labor Board finds

#46
Wouldn't it be better for Amazon, in the long term to let workers get the best salary/benefits in the industry and even cooperate in their unionization efforts (if the workers want to)? Would it such a big hit to their bottom line?

Or am I just being to too naive?

[Edit: Grammar]

Re: Amazon illegally fired activist workers, Labor Board finds

#47
post #42

Are there any apps to streamline the unionization of businesses? It would seem quorum discovery is the hardest part of creating a union -- who is ready to join. Being in a union myself, even with some of the political issues that come with it, I very much appreciate what they do for me.

The incentive structure is bad. However much money you make for organizing unions, I'm positive the company they're attempting to unionize will pay you several times that to give them the list of workers who want to unionize. It's the same problem review sites have; companies that want to game the reviews will pay more than users who want honest reviews.

You'll also have issues with companies paying someone to join the unionization effort to spy on it. That's not insurmountable with proper designs, but it makes it a lot harder to assist with organizing when you have to silo users from one another to prevent espionage.

Re: Amazon illegally fired activist workers, Labor Board finds

#48
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. But it would interesting to hear how Amazon claims these employees violated internal policies. That seems newsworthy.

Their spokesperson did not wish to say what policies they claim were violated. They were presented an opportunity to state their side, and chose not to.

Maybe an intrepid journalist could find out...

Perhaps, in doing so, that journalist would discover that Amazon had no real argument for any internal policy being violated at all. Or perhaps they would discover that these employees did, in fact, violate some internal policy, whether or not their firing violated their rights.

Re: Amazon illegally fired activist workers, Labor Board finds

#49
post #2

"The agency told Ms. Cunningham and Ms. Costa that it would accuse Amazon of unfair labor practices if the company did not settle the case, according to correspondence that Ms. Cunningham shared with The New York Times." That's a pretty nice piece of leverage to have in hand while negotiating a settlement. Edit: They were both UX/Design folks with Amazon, fired on April 10th, 2020. Costa was Amazon's first ever Princ…

Is settlement actually a bad deal for Amazon or similar companies like Google? Sure they have to spend a bit of money on the settlement but they have still succeeded at their actual objective of getting rid of the activist employees. This cycle (labour organisation attempt -> leaders fired -> settlement for leaders -> leaders go off to some media job/retirement/academia) happens again and again. Presumably the companies think they’re getting a reasonably good deal out of firing the organisers.

Re: Amazon illegally fired activist workers, Labor Board finds

#50

Wouldn't it be better for Amazon, in the long term to let workers get the best salary/benefits in the industry and even cooperate in their unionization efforts (if the workers want to)? Would it such a big hit to their bottom line? Or am I just being to too naive? [Edit: Grammar]

It’s not just about the bottom line, it’s also about power. Without unionization, Amazon has complete control over their workers wages, benefits, and work contracts. Unionization shifts some of that control to the workers themselves. Amazon doesn’t want to lose that power.
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