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The Lost Apps of the 80s

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Re: The Lost Apps of the 80s

#51

Post by jolux »

tibbydudeza wrote: post #25
jbullock35 wrote: post #8

People who weren't alive at the time may not appreciate how different the commercial app ecosystem was: how many more options, how much less concentrated. Here is a PC Magazine cover from 1988: https://archive.org/details/PC-Mag-1988-02-29 . It boasts a review of 55 different word processors. All of them would have been commercial; none of it was free, let alone open-source. It wasn't just word processors. Here is a…

Those annual PC Magazine Best Printer of 19XX that weighed the same as a tome - but they really tested in depth - now we just go to the local PC store and buy a crappy $99 inkjet on special from HP/Epson or Canon.

The market became commodified and the need to test to find adequate products evaporated.

Re: The Lost Apps of the 80s

#52

Post by 2421n »

JamesAdir wrote: post #43
jbullock35 wrote: post #8

People who weren't alive at the time may not appreciate how different the commercial app ecosystem was: how many more options, how much less concentrated. Here is a PC Magazine cover from 1988: https://archive.org/details/PC-Mag-1988-02-29 . It boasts a review of 55 different word processors. All of them would have been commercial; none of it was free, let alone open-source. It wasn't just word processors. Here is a…

If you compare word processors to note taking apps of today which I think are very equivalent to the same use you'll find more than 55 tools. Word processors belong to an era where the computer replaced the typewriter and it's not needed any more these days. You can find commercial, free or open source note taking apps that are local or cloud based and offer a huge variety of features.

You could likely more than 55 open source text editors too. I could name at least 15 offhand, I think.

Re: The Lost Apps of the 80s

#53

Post by jolux »

JamesAdir wrote: post #43
jbullock35 wrote: post #8

People who weren't alive at the time may not appreciate how different the commercial app ecosystem was: how many more options, how much less concentrated. Here is a PC Magazine cover from 1988: https://archive.org/details/PC-Mag-1988-02-29 . It boasts a review of 55 different word processors. All of them would have been commercial; none of it was free, let alone open-source. It wasn't just word processors. Here is a…

If you compare word processors to note taking apps of today which I think are very equivalent to the same use you'll find more than 55 tools. Word processors belong to an era where the computer replaced the typewriter and it's not needed any more these days. You can find commercial, free or open source note taking apps that are local or cloud based and offer a huge variety of features.

I do wonder whether note-taking apps will condense over time too though, as our phones continue to become bigger extensions of our intellectual activity.

Re: The Lost Apps of the 80s

#54

Post by Joeri »

For me it is a lot about changing expectations. I used to use ecco pro for my notetaking. I loved it, it was very powerful and focused and it let me capture my ideas very effectively. Today I use onenote, which as an outliner sort of sucks.

Why did I move from ecco pro to onenote? Because I want something that automatically syncs to all my devices, easily searches across a decade of notes and lets me get things done from my phone. Onenote’s low quality outline authoring experience is trumped by its networking features.

This for me is the key: we expect tools to live on the network. All those apps of old, they were based around files, their business models were based around buying files, and they targeted one form factor and often only one OS. We need tools based around networks, not files, that target every form factor and every OS, but doing that costs a lot of money to rent servers and build frontends, and that means we get locked in saas products. Tons of saas products, all solving the same set of problems on the network but doing it through a web interface because it allows them to write once and run everywhere.

What would really help is a free substrate for networked open source products. If you could deploy something cloud-native without having to pay for servers, you’d see more community and native apps and less web saas in the productivity tools space.

Re: The Lost Apps of the 80s

#55

Post by WalterBright »

coldtea wrote: post #50
WalterBright wrote: post #6

I still use microEmacs, which floated around the intertoobs in the 1980s. Of course, I've modified it substantially over the years, most recently adding color syntax highlighting and Unicode. D version: https://github.com/DigitalMars/med C version: https://github.com/DigitalMars/me The "extension language" is it's so easy to just add some code and recompile it, there's no point in adding an extension language. I like…

> The "extension language" is it's so easy to just add some code and recompile it ... there's no point in adding an extension language. Missed a "if you're a major programming language creator and profficient with parsers and compilers since the 80s" between these two parts of the sentence...

I invite you to take a look at the source code and the implementation of some of the commands (there's one function per command), and see how easy it is.

Re: The Lost Apps of the 80s

#56

Post by JamesAdir »

2421n wrote: post #52
JamesAdir wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you compare word processors to note taking apps of today which I think are very equivalent to the same use you'll find more than 55 tools. Word processors belong to an era where the computer replaced the typewriter and it's not needed any more these days. You can find commercial, free or open source note taking apps that are local or cloud based and offer a huge variety of features.

You could likely more than 55 open source text editors too. I could name at least 15 offhand, I think.

That's a good comparison also to the word processors of the 80's.

Re: The Lost Apps of the 80s

#57

Post by raverbashing »

jbullock35 wrote: post #8

People who weren't alive at the time may not appreciate how different the commercial app ecosystem was: how many more options, how much less concentrated. Here is a PC Magazine cover from 1988: https://archive.org/details/PC-Mag-1988-02-29 . It boasts a review of 55 different word processors. All of them would have been commercial; none of it was free, let alone open-source. It wasn't just word processors. Here is a…

It was certainly a more creative time, at a time of expensive computers and restricted resources

It was a time of evolutionary explosion. And while I don't miss a lot of the aspects of it, it is certainly nostalgic in a lot of ways

(though I'm not the type to play with 80s hardware - emulators are more practical)

Oh and about the "none of it was free" well ;)

Re: The Lost Apps of the 80s

#58

Post by jhbadger »

zozbot234 wrote: post #22
WalterBright wrote: post #6

I still use microEmacs, which floated around the intertoobs in the 1980s. Of course, I've modified it substantially over the years, most recently adding color syntax highlighting and Unicode. D version: https://github.com/DigitalMars/med C version: https://github.com/DigitalMars/me The "extension language" is it's so easy to just add some code and recompile it, there's no point in adding an extension language. I like…

But why use a μEmacs when you can use actual Emacs, with its comprehensive scriptability? μEmacsen made sense on older platforms like CP/M and MS-DOG, but they're pointless today.

I often use zile, a modern mini-Emacs for quick editing jobs because it starts up instantly (yes, I know you can achieve similar start up times using the client/server feature of Emacs, but that always seems more work than it's worth).

Re: The Lost Apps of the 80s

#59

Post by criddell »

Joeri wrote: post #54

For me it is a lot about changing expectations. I used to use ecco pro for my notetaking. I loved it, it was very powerful and focused and it let me capture my ideas very effectively. Today I use onenote, which as an outliner sort of sucks. Why did I move from ecco pro to onenote? Because I want something that automatically syncs to all my devices, easily searches across a decade of notes and lets me get things done…

> This for me is the key: we expect tools to live on the network. All those apps of old, they were based around files

I agree and it's why I'm a fan of apps that sync data via something like Dropbox or Google Drive. The application can still be file based and the developer doesn't have to run servers. There are the obvious limitations, but for personal use it works pretty well.

Re: The Lost Apps of the 80s

#60

Post by criddell »

asymptosis wrote: post #7

Based on the title, I thought this was going to be about finding, archiving and curating those lost apps. Instead, it's just a complaint about how "it was better in the old days." What gets me about this line of thought is that the technology didn't disappear. Anyone who wants to recreate "the lost apps of the 80s" just needs to grab a text editor and start coding. Everyone has the power to create any app they like.…

Dave has written and given away plenty of software over the years. I don't think that's a fair criticism of him.
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