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Ask HN: What novel tools are you using to write web sites/apps?

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Re: Ask HN: What novel tools are you using to write web sites/apps?

#21

Post by systemvoltage »

Leftium wrote: post #19

SvelteKit, Serverless, Backendless.com SvelteKit[1] is a framework for SvelteJS (like Next.js is a framework for ReactJS). I've tried both Svelte and React. Svelte seems to be more elegant and lets me implement my ideas faster with less code. Svelte is very flexible; SvelteKit adds some opinions on how to do things like routing. SvelteKit also embraces the serverless paradigm[2] (AKA JAMstack[3]). Although a node.js…

This whole thing feels like layers upon layers of complexity. Not to mention, the brittle aspects of any javascript project - immature, lack of robustness and dependability. Your stuff is working on Node v12? Good luck with Node v14 - both LTS versions. It is a shitshow. Let's keep Javascript inside the browser IMO.

SveltKit is literally 2 months old.

Re: Ask HN: What novel tools are you using to write web sites/apps?

#22

Post by brochington »

I've been experimenting with ways of using Web Components with the ECS (Entity Component System) pattern. I'm not sure it will ever become the preferred way of writing web apps, but it does offer promise in exposing some alternate ways to structure Frontend code.

Here is an example Calculator App I've made: https://codesandbox.io/s/fervent-elion-isq29

And here is the ECS library I'm using (which I've written): https://github.com/brochington/ecstatic

Re: Ask HN: What novel tools are you using to write web sites/apps?

#24

Post by Normal_gaussian »

For quick personal things I have a massive hack over webpack that makes anything ".static." into an output. This means there are no parallel directories for assets and my code can be a million times more modular.

Its a hack. There are edge cases. It was a proof of concept that has carried me over the line. I even have extra plugins for server side render and compile time render.

I keep meaning to write it up and try and port the tests to weboack itself (so I can argue for missing features), but it does what I need, I'm not a front end dev, im busy elsewhere (in life and work).

Re: Ask HN: What novel tools are you using to write web sites/apps?

#25

Post by kouteiheika »

This partially might be more of a what's old is new again, but here's what I use:

- 100% server side rendered

- Progressively enhanced (fully works without JS, but having JS enabled makes it nicer)

- In select places where I need SPA-like snappiness I use a ~100 line long DOM diffing algorithm (I request full HTML through AJAX and diff it into the current page; if the user has no JS enabled then the page just refreshes normally)

- Running on a single, cheap VPS; no Docker, no Kubernetes, no serverless

- No SQL database; I just keep everything in memory in native data structures and flush to disk periodically; I have a big swap file set up so that I can keep a working set bigger than the RAM

- Written in Rust, so it's fast; I can support tens of thousands of connections per second and thousands concurrent users on my cheap VPS

Re: Ask HN: What novel tools are you using to write web sites/apps?

#26

Post by systemvoltage »

recursivedoubts wrote: post #5

I am working on two alternative tools for building web apps: https://htmx.org - uses HTML attributes and HTML-over-the-wire for AJAX/Web Socket/SSE interactions https://hyperscript.org - an experimental front end programming language derived from HyperTalk that is event-oriented and that removes the distinction between synchronous and asynchronous code. Both tools are HTML-oriented and are designed to be embedded dir…

I've played with HTMX (and previously intercooler.js). Just wanted to say - everything you touch is awesome. Thanks for your efforts.

I also like Alpine.js and Stimulus.js projects. They're trying to simplify the insanity of front-end development.

Go + HTMX is super powers. It peels away the piles and piles of framework layers and still gets you 90% there. For the 10%, just use React/Angular/Vue.

Re: Ask HN: What novel tools are you using to write web sites/apps?

#27

Post by debaserab2 »

k__ wrote: post #15

I'm currently working with the AWS CDK and the more I used it, the more I have the feeling tools like that could be the next big thing. It's melting the walls between cloud infrastructure and application code and the fact that it does IaC with the same language I use to program web apps (JS/TS) plays an important role here. I think, it's not 100% there yet, but it's on a good way.

I spent a lot of time with CDK last year using Typescript. Very impressed with it and I have zero regrets after moving over our app's infrastructure to being deployed with it after 9 months in production.

I felt like being forced to use typed IaC helped me understand AWS API's and services themselves better.

Re: Ask HN: What novel tools are you using to write web sites/apps?

#28

Post by raihansaputra »

systemvoltage wrote: post #21
Leftium wrote: post #19

SvelteKit, Serverless, Backendless.com SvelteKit[1] is a framework for SvelteJS (like Next.js is a framework for ReactJS). I've tried both Svelte and React. Svelte seems to be more elegant and lets me implement my ideas faster with less code. Svelte is very flexible; SvelteKit adds some opinions on how to do things like routing. SvelteKit also embraces the serverless paradigm[2] (AKA JAMstack[3]). Although a node.js…

This whole thing feels like layers upon layers of complexity. Not to mention, the brittle aspects of any javascript project - immature, lack of robustness and dependability. Your stuff is working on Node v12? Good luck with Node v14 - both LTS versions. It is a shitshow. Let's keep Javascript inside the browser IMO. SveltKit is literally 2 months old.

SvelteKit as a project is literally 4 months old (since announced), but Sapper (the predecessor) have been around for longer, and SvelteKit has been used on NYT's county-level COVID tracker. There will be some teething problems but it's definitely not a totally greenfield project.

Re: Ask HN: What novel tools are you using to write web sites/apps?

#30

Post by thunderbong »

systemvoltage wrote: post #21
Leftium wrote: post #19

SvelteKit, Serverless, Backendless.com SvelteKit[1] is a framework for SvelteJS (like Next.js is a framework for ReactJS). I've tried both Svelte and React. Svelte seems to be more elegant and lets me implement my ideas faster with less code. Svelte is very flexible; SvelteKit adds some opinions on how to do things like routing. SvelteKit also embraces the serverless paradigm[2] (AKA JAMstack[3]). Although a node.js…

This whole thing feels like layers upon layers of complexity. Not to mention, the brittle aspects of any javascript project - immature, lack of robustness and dependability. Your stuff is working on Node v12? Good luck with Node v14 - both LTS versions. It is a shitshow. Let's keep Javascript inside the browser IMO. SveltKit is literally 2 months old.

Well, Svelte itself is a bit older than that. And of all the modern Javascript frameworks, Svelte has been, for me, the most joyful to work with.

However, to your comment, I agree - there's unnecessary amount of complexity in the stack above. For me, it's usually Svelte in front, with any server side application.

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