151–160 of 169 posts
Honestly, that's really funny.
People here in Egypt think it is funny. That's why the media likes to publish these fake stories. They are not anti-women or something like that, they just think it is a good joke. But it is not funny at all.
I agree, and we should be encouraging women into men-dominated fields across the board, starting with the ultra dangerous jobs like "deep sea welder" and "lumberjack". We shouldn't stop until women are subjected to the same risk of death on jobs as men are. [1] [1] https://www.smh.com.au/opinion/how-to-die-at-work-be-male-20...
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It’s a smaller sample than all cars I ever see, sure. But it’s still fairly big. If I look at a car I’ll usually try to look at the drivers face too, just because it’s useful information to know where they are directing their attention. I don’t think that’s particularly idiosyncratic and so it seems like a somewhat cheap argument to me to imply that people are basically just willfully deluding themselves.
The issue is cognitive biases make the total sample size irrelevant, which is something to be aware of. Unfortunately, said biases are not willful which makes them far more insidious a problem to notice and deal with. Anyway, as a simple test try and count how many cars you can see next time you go for a drive, how many people’s gender you can infer, and how many you can positively identify based on their looks. It’s…
Might be interesting to try, but I think in a situation where I notice a bad driver I'm much more likely to identify their gender than in a random passing car.
But I live in a comparatively small Austrian city riddled with traffic lights, weird intersections, crosswalks, and way too much traffic in general, so I get ample opportunity to look at slow moving cars. If you're American your culture around cars is probably very different and that might explain why we seem to have a different intuition about this.
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I don't understand the 'behind' bit. What's 'behind' about not being a cargo ship captain? Do you have to force people into roles they don't want just to create a statistic to suggest equality?
Do you believe that there’s a perfect mapping between ‘jobs that people want’ and ‘representation in those jobs’? And if so, how do you account for the fact that a) people working in the industries themselves cite that there is work to do on gender diversity and b) that the disparity remains even when you control for manual/heavy physical work (i.e you account only for people working in desk / design based AEC roles)…
Suppose I'm a doctor/refuse collector, but really wanted to be a ship's captain, am I 'behind'. I guess it's that there's an implicit hierarchy of roles implied .. if I'm ship's engineer, but really want to be engineer, am I 'behind' the captain?
I just don't know what's really meant by this: is it about competitive roles, is it about access, is it about status. I'm not trying to be argumentative, I don't know that the parent means by 'behind'.
It seems all the responses have assumed I did know what they meant and had taken a particular view on it.
FWIW I'm not in the slightest denying that in some countries women/men are excluded from (or find it more difficult to get) some roles for sexist reasons.
I'm aware there are disparities in all areas (in UK), one of the biggest is teaching - very few men are able to get roles in primary (5-11yo) teaching. In other areas it seems you're more likely to get a job if qualified. Where I work women are being offered jobs at about equal rates to men (higher rates of women, actually), but the pool of qualified people is heavily male as women don't choose to take the degrees that feed into that pool. None of this proves anything, except that I know senior management were lauding the offering of more jobs to women, as opposed to just to qualified people regardless of sex [I can't cite this, internal stats, sorry].
I'm interested in your (b) do you have stats to cite on that?
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Do you believe that there’s a perfect mapping between ‘jobs that people want’ and ‘representation in those jobs’? And if so, how do you account for the fact that a) people working in the industries themselves cite that there is work to do on gender diversity and b) that the disparity remains even when you control for manual/heavy physical work (i.e you account only for people working in desk / design based AEC roles)…
I'd imagine barely anyone has the job they'd choose; maybe I'm an outlier. Suppose I'm a doctor/refuse collector, but really wanted to be a ship's captain, am I 'behind'. I guess it's that there's an implicit hierarchy of roles implied .. if I'm ship's engineer, but really want to be engineer, am I 'behind' the captain? I just don't know what's really meant by this: is it about competitive roles, is it about access,…
you are assuming that there are not many women in this field because they don't want to be. but the reality is that there are not many women because they are not welcome. 50% parity is not the goal here. (though in some fields like teaching children, it actually should be) but the removal of all barriers so that all women (or men, if that's the case) that want to work in this field and are qualified, can.
A couple of years ago one of five highly modern frigates in the Norwegian Navy collided with a barely moving oil tanker[1] in a well monitored area. The collision turned out to be fatal to the ship, which is now on its way to become scrap metal. When it came to light that four out of five of the navigators on board were female, the results were fairly predictable[2][3]. Will be interesting to read the final accident…
>Norway’s Ministry of Defence has not yet reported whether they plan to lift the frigate from where it sunk to repair the vessel.
hilarious
A couple of years ago one of five highly modern frigates in the Norwegian Navy collided with a barely moving oil tanker[1] in a well monitored area. The collision turned out to be fatal to the ship, which is now on its way to become scrap metal. When it came to light that four out of five of the navigators on board were female, the results were fairly predictable[2][3]. Will be interesting to read the final accident…
>The KMN Helge Ingstad is one of five Nansen-class frigates billed as “unsinkable” due to its construction with water-tight zones designed to keep the warship “intact and operable”. >Norway’s Ministry of Defence has not yet reported whether they plan to lift the frigate from where it sunk to repair the vessel. hilarious
Indeed. Also part of the reason the Navy has sued both the manufacturer and the company who vetted the design plans[1].
Time will tell if that pans out for the Navy or not.
[1]: https://militaryleak.com/2020/11/08/norway-sues-dnv-certific...
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I'm talking about addressing systemic issues in our culture (like calling any group we don't like by a bad name) that are definitely, provably, obviously, causing more of the bad behavior that we're trying to criticize. I live in a very "purple" area and even though I am "blue" I get along with "red" people easily by, I dunno, not calling them "deplorables" when they say something that offends me. It's up to each of…
I understand your feedback, and I generally try to be level headed in these matters, but I simply think that it's a losing battle. Playing the victim is a competitive sport online, suffice to see the outrage caused by "literally whos" who post some silly extreme take on some social network. It then gets posted and reposted everywhere to rile the troups. My point is, if a nobody like myself calling a bunch of people "…
Again, my only point, is that your idea that calling them losers will do anything except trigger a double-down is hurting your own cause.
Also, HN is a niche echo chamber similar to those others you mention, in many ways.
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So let's give up on fixing anything because it's always worse somewhere else?
What an outrageous example of a straw man, I never suggested anything of the sort. Women here can run for president, own newspapers, vote and own guns and property. That's more free than most people these days. We should celebrate that best of all time freedom for women. Never in history have women been as equal and empowered as right now and right here. We should care more about our chinese and other brothers and si…
'It could always be worse' is an agent of the status-quo.
This place maybe the least-worst, but we can still strive for actually good.
Edit: you're completely right that we should balance our efforts domestically with our efforts universally. The latter is unfortunately a much more intricate web to unweave than the relatively simple issues we've got here. It sucks.
I agree, and we should be encouraging women into men-dominated fields across the board, starting with the ultra dangerous jobs like "deep sea welder" and "lumberjack". We shouldn't stop until women are subjected to the same risk of death on jobs as men are. [1] [1] https://www.smh.com.au/opinion/how-to-die-at-work-be-male-20...
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We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26688917.